Edged Wpns Help with sword ID

[Epfireman]

I'm looking for some information on this what I think is Civil War sword… i've heard it's a European imported blade or sword possibly 1850 model mounted or infantry . There is a SK or SH Mark by the hilt which I read is German but can anybody provide any more information on the sword on one side of the sword at near the hilt, there is a shield, and what appears to be flags in the engraving, the sword was found in the 1930s by my grandfather and an attic of a building in central Kentucky so it's been in my family for a long time and I recently inherited it . like to find out some information to go with the sword, so when I pass it on to my sons, that they'll know some history on the sword. I'm not interested in selling, I've heard the value is less than $600…. I'm really just interested in any info sword

 

[bayonet]

Looks like a imported 1850 Foot Officers sword and that scabbard is not correct for that sword I believe. Show better pics of the marking on both sides of the blade in front of the handle.

 

[Epfireman]

Looks like a imported 1850 Foot Officers sword and that scabbard is not correct for that sword I believe. Show better pics of the marking on both sides of the blade in front of the handle.

Looks like an imported 1850 Foot Officers sword and that scabbard is not correct for that sword I believe. Show better pics of the marking on both sides of the blade in front of the handle.

Added… no markings on spine

 

[Cornpone and Molasses]

Added… no markings on spine

View attachment 494357

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Someone's social security number?
In my time in the retail firearms industry I have seen older guns where the owner would engrave their SS number in the stock or the receiver.

 

[Cornpone and Molasses]

Looks like a imported 1850 Foot Officers sword and that scabbard is not correct for that sword I believe. Show better pics of the marking on both sides of the blade in front of the handle.

Agree on the scabbard not being correct.

 

[Epfireman]

Looks like an imported 1850 Foot Officers sword and that scabbard is not correct for that sword I believe. Show better pics of the marking on both sides of the blade in front of the handle.

That's about the best I can get … are you talking of the s h inside the barbell … the other mark I think is a social security number …. If it is , it's when ss# 's were fairly new… the sword been in my family for 90 years

 

[scooter748driver]

Welcome from the Fort Sumter and the Fredericksburg forums.


Agree, the scabbard is either a cavalry or an artillery scabbard which isn't correct for the sword it's paired with.

 

[Epfireman]

Welcome from the Fort Sumter and the Fredericksburg forums.


Agree, the scabbard is either a cavalry or an artillery scabbard which isn't correct for the sword it's paired with.

I've been told it's both mounted and foot sword.. maybe that's the confusion… much more have said the sword is a foot sword… much more confusion on the markings whether it's a s&k or s&h … it maybe be double stamped and several have said they've not seen S&k in the barbells… anyone have any input

 

[Epfireman]

I think it may have been double stamped as there's 2 crossbars and one circle looks double

 

[Epfireman]

Welcome from the Fort Sumter and the Fredericksburg forums.


Agree, the scabbard is either a cavalry or an artillery scabbard which isn't correct for the sword it's paired with.

Someone's social security number?
In my time in the retail firearms industry I have seen older guns where the owner would engrave their SS number in the stock or the receiver.

That's my feeling what occurred

 

[R. Porter]

Richard Schenk's comments on the S and H barbell are accurate. How long is the blade? It's my impression that an infantry officer on foot has a sword with a blade from 28 to 30 inches long, an infantry officer on horseback has a blade about 32 inches long, a cavalry officer has a blade about 34.5 inches and a cavalry trooper has a blade about 35 -36 inches. The hilt on your sword is typically found on a straight bladed sword carried by an officer on foot.

 

[Glen_C]

Helvig & Sons (S.H. et fils) were earlier in the game and Hoppe with a beehive. IMO

 

[Epfireman]

Richard Schenk's comments on the S and H barbell are accurate. How long is the blade? It's my impression that an infantry officer on foot has a sword with a blade from 28 to 30 inches long, an infantry officer on horseback has a blade about 32 inches long, a cavalry officer has a blade about 34.5 inches and a cavalry trooper has a blade about 35 -36 inches. The hilt on your sword is typically found on a straight bladed sword carried by an officer on foot.

Do measure on blade edge or spine edge

 

[Epfireman]

Do measure on blade edge or spine edge

Richard Schenk's comments on the S and H barbell are accurate. How long is the blade? It's my impression that an infantry officer on foot has a sword with a blade from 28 to 30 inches long, an infantry officer on horseback has a blade about 32 inches long, a cavalry officer has a blade about 34.5 inches and a cavalry trooper has a blade about 35 -36 inches. The hilt on your sword is typically found on a straight bladed sword carried by an officer on foot.

31.5 on spine , 31.75 on edge

 

[bayonet]

That's about the best I can get … are you talking of the s h inside the barbell … the other mark I think is a social security number …. If it is , it's when ss# 's were fairly new… the sword been in my family for 90 years

Well there you have it. It's a SH for Simon Helvig, a Foot Officers Sword, with an incorrect scabbard for mounted troops. May or may not of been in the ACW since it could of been a Veteran bring back from WW1. France was hurting during both World Wars and would sell anything to the Yanks.

 

[Epfireman]

Just curious I've seen a similar sword and scabbard although my rings seem a little further apart…. So is mine a mounted scabbard ? And what would be the correct one for that sword look like?
Thanks

 

[Epfireman]

Well there you have it. It's a SH for Simon Helvig, a Foot Officers Sword, with an incorrect scabbard for mounted troops. May or may not of been in the ACW since it could have been a Veteran bring back from WW1. France was hurting during both World Wars and would sell anything to the Yanks.

What is the proper name /term for that SH mark .. poincon or marker mark … ?

 

[bayonet]

What is the proper name /term for that SH mark .. poincon or marker mark … ?

Well if the SH denotes the maker then I'd say it's a maker mark not a marker mark. Goodness what will you ask next how many slacking off enlisted men the Officer whacked on the head with the flat side of the blade to get them to move out?

 

[R. Porter]

Just curious I've seen a similar sword and scabbard although my rings seem a little further apart…. So is mine a mounted scabbard ? And what would be the correct one for that sword look like?
Thanks

View attachment 494615

The scabbard in the picture with this sword appears to be a model 1906. They fit a number of Ames early war model 1860 cavalry blades and are often found with model 1860 cavalry sabers offered for sale.

 

[Epfireman]

Well there you have it. It's a SH for Simon Helvig, a Foot Officers Sword, with an incorrect scabbard for mounted troops. May or may not of been in the ACW since it could have been a Veteran bring back from WW1. France was hurting during both World Wars and would sell anything to the Yanks.

It does have a faint US etched into one side of the blade…. Isn't indicative it was a CW sword ?