Need Help with Sword/Bowie

[ironmannf]

Hello Everyone,
I couldn't think of a better place to find help than here. Recently, I purchased this bowie or maybe it's a short sword from an elderly woman trying to get rid of a bunch of stuff. She didn't know the history on the knife/sword but only said that it's been in her family ever since she could remember. She was only asking $50.00 so I decided to purchase it. The knife/sword is entirely made out of hand forged steel and has some hefty weight to it. The overall length is 26 1/2" long, the length of the blade is 22 3/8", the thickness of the blade is 1/2" at the hand guard tapering down to 1/4" for the remainder of the blade. I would be grateful if someone could give me their opinion on what this might be or even where it may have originated from. Thank you in advance for your help!

 

[JackADriscoll]

That's pretty neat any marks or stamps anywhere?

 

[ironmannf]

There's no stamps or markings on it.

 

[JackADriscoll]

We're entering wild guess territory for me but due to the crudeness of it I think it's a sword converted to a knife. Someone may be along to disagree with me. I went through my edged weapons books and this pattern didn't jump off the page at me. It feels like a wrist breaker converted into a very crude knife but it still has the fighting qualities and not a sword to turned into a machete for work purposes. Wild guess from me but I love it

 

[ironmannf]

My first thought was a wrist breaker too. I believe I recall seeing a wrist breaker made out of steel.

 

[johan_steele]

You did well for $50. It has the feel of a sword converted into a corn knife but what it was originally is beyond my scope of knowledge.

 

[Cato3rd]

She was only asking $50.00 so I decided to purchase it.

For 50 greenbacks I would have taken a chance on it as well. If in your research you find out this is some ultra rare confederate sword that's been photographed, you can buy her lunch for giving you a good deal on it

 

[R. Porter]

This is a type of Spanish Colonial machete now called an espada ancha. Traits to notice are a cutlass or machete size; heavy, blacksmith-like construction; possible re-use of parts from other weapons; and a squiggly quillon. Fifty bucks is a really good deal. It might have been a bring back from the Mexican War. For a discussion on them see the article at url:

http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/espada_ancha.pdf

 

[Rhea Cole]

The guard is a very nice piece of blacksmithing. Whoever did that was a real craftsman.

The back of the blade is rounded, which is typical of a blacksmith rather than a bladesmith.

The crude notch on the point is some fool's attempt to make it look ferocious. The original smith would not have buggered his blade up like that.

The key to where & by who the sword was made lies with the singular way the guard was forged. It was done by a skilled smith who had done this many times before. It wasn't just somebody banging one out in a weekend.

This is speculation on my part. This looks like the hallmarks of a Mexican espada ancha to me.

Espada / Sword

Ancha / wide or broad

Not to be confused with the Medieval broadsword.

The piece has lots of character & well worth the price. Best to accept it for the craftsmanship & forget the inductive logic.

Take a look at these examples & the essay that follows. See more here.

Link:

Mexican 19th Century Espada Ancha Short Sword

Mexican 19th Century Espada Ancha Short Sword. Colonial Spanish espada ancha short sword with ribbed horn grip and handforged blade.

www.militariahub.com

Link:

Mexican Espada Ancha Broadsword, 18th/19th C - Antique Weapon Store

What we now call the “Espada Ancha” (“Broadsword” in English) is a uniquely Mexican sword, with a somewhat crudely made guard fashioned from individual pieces riveted together. In this case, the hilt is of iron, with a round convex shell forming the base of the guard with a knuckle bow fitting...

www.antiqueweaponstore.com

Link:

Original Mexican-American War Era Mexican Hand Forged “Machete Sword” With Coin Ricasso “Buffers”

Original Item: Only One Available. This is a great example of a Mexican-American War era Mexican hand-forged sword. The sword itself has a unique addition added to it. On both sides of the ricasso, there is a small coin on each side, almost acting as a “buffer” to keep the blade tight to the...

www.ima-usa.com

Link:

18th C. Spanish Colonial Espada Ancha Sword

North America, Mexico / Southwestern USA, Spanish Colonial period, ca. late 18th to mid-19th century CE. An intimidating saber, known as an espada ancho or broad sword, which was carried by Spanish soldiers. The blade is short and wide with a single cutting edge that slightly curves upward to a...

www.bidsquare.com

Ironmannf, these examples will give you an idea of why your sword caught my eye as a Mexican espada ancha.

History of the espada ancha. Read more here.

Link;

www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/espada_ancha.pdf

 

[Rhea Cole]

This is a type of Spanish Colonial machete now called an espada ancha. Traits to notice are a cutlass or machete size; heavy, blacksmith-like construction; possible re-use of parts from other weapons; and a squiggly quillon. Fifty bucks is a really good deal. It might have been a bring back from the Mexican War. For a discussion on them see the article at url:

http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/espada_ancha.pdf

R. Porter, I concur with your observations. It appears to be a Mexican espada ancha to me, as well. I have posted some examples to illustrate why we have reached the same conclusion.

 

[ironmannf]

I don't know about it being a corn knife, I don't think it has all of the attributes of one. A pirate sword, maybe. Lol

 

[ironmannf]

I never heard of a Mexican espada ancha. Definitely looks like a plausible possibility. I'll definitely look at your attachments.

 

[JackADriscoll]

When you run it through Google lense it comes back as a few of the things mentioned but I'm not sure about that.

 

[Rhea Cole]

When you run it through Google lense it comes back as a few of the things mentioned but I'm not sure about that.

It would be useful to consider that the espada ancha dates from the 1600's. It was forged in Northern Mexico until the 20th Century. Only a smith who had an apprenticeship could have mastered the skills to forge that guard.

Out of curiosity, are you a fellow blacksmith?

 

[ironmannf]

I used google lense before I posted on the forum to see what this was and I t came back as a confederate bowie. I'm skeptical about calling anything confederate without 100% proof. So I figured you guys were my best bet for figuring this one out. Whatever it is, I'm cool with it. I do hope to find out what it is.I don't think this knife/sword, etc is valuable but I plan on giving this to my youngest daughter with the rest of my edged weapon collection as she has no interest in my firearm collection like my older daughter and son are.

 

[JackADriscoll]

I used google lense before I posted on the forum to see what this was and I t came back as a confederate bowie. I'm skeptical about calling anything confederate without 100% proof. So I figured you guys were my best bet for figuring this one out. Whatever it is, I'm cool with it. I do hope to find out what it is.I don't think this knife/sword, etc is valuable but I plan on giving this to my youngest daughter with the rest of my edged weapon collection as she has no interest in my firearm collection like my older daughter and son are.

What is the width? I have experimented with smithing but my profession is not blacksmith

 

[ironmannf]

What is the width? I have experimented with smithing but my profession is not blacksmith

The blade measures 22 3/8" long by 2". The thickness of the blade by the hand guard is 1/2" thick tapering quickly down to 1/4" for the entire remaining length of the blade to a sharpened point, see picture 3.

 

[Patrick H]

This is pure speculation: I'm guessing the wooden grip was changed whenever the blade shape was altered. It's odd how the attractive spiral grooves either never extended all around the handle or were worn off. I don't think they were ever complete.

 

[R. Porter]

You can lead a horse to water… there is no doubt it is an espada ancha. If you choose to google the term looking for prices you'll see them often listed in the $400.00 and up price range. It most likely dates before the American Civil War.

 

[ironmannf]

This is pure speculation: I'm guessing the wooden grip was changed whenever the blade shape was altered. It's odd how the attractive spiral grooves either never extended all around the handle or were worn off. I don't think they were ever complete.

There is some wood on the inside of the handle that I can just about see through the open crack that's rattling around in there. I was also thinking about those grooves on the handle too. Maybe they were for looks or something that was repurposed.