Fighting for Slavery?

CMWinkler

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#41
The aim was independence, yes. The result would have been the preservation of slavery. The perceived threat to slavery,together with other reasons, prompted the desire for independence.
 

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unionblue

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#42
"The new constitution has put at rest forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution--African slavery as it exists amongst us--the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution." -- Alexander H. Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederacy, in a speech in Savannah, Georgia, March 21, 1861.
 

unionblue

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#44
The aim was independence, yes. The result would have been the preservation of slavery. The perceived threat to slavery,together with other reasons, prompted the desire for independence.
CMWinkler,

Again, you seem to want to put the cart before the horse. :smile:

Again, the desire, the need for independence, does not spring from people or the earth without reason. There must be a cause, a reason, for the desire for independence, can we not agree?

Now, you have listed "the perceived threat to slavery" and then you state there were other reasons that "prompted the desire for independence." We seem to be in agreement that there must be a "prompted" desire for independence before that desire takes place, do we not?

Or have I misread?

Sincerely,
Unionblue
 

unionblue

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#46
"There are now in the slaveholding States over four millions of slaves; dissolve the relation of master and slave, and what, I ask, would become of that race? To remove them from amongst us is impossible....They therefore must remain with us; and if the relation of master and slave be dissolved and our slaves turned loose amongst us without restraint, they would either be destroyed by our own hands--the hands to which they look, and look with confidence, for protection--or we ourselves would become demoralized and edgraded. The former result would take place, and we oursleves would become the executioners of our own slaves." -- Edmund S. Dargan, legislator and judge, in a speech to the Secession Convention of Alabama on January 11, 1861.
 

unionblue

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#47
"The cause of the great War of the Rebellion against the United States will have to be attributed to slavery. For some years before the war began it was a trite saying among some politicians that "A state half slave and half free cannot exist." All must become slave or all free, or the state will go down. I took no part myself in any such view of the case at the time, but since the war is over, reviewing the whole question, I have come to the conclusion that the saying is quite true." -- Ulysses S. Grant, from his Personal Memiors of U.S. Grant, vol. 2, 1886.
 

unionblue

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#48
"The bloody conflict between brothers, is closed, and we "come to bury Caesar, not to praise him." The South had $2,000,000,000 invested in Slaves. It was very natural that they should desire to protect, and not lose this amount of property. Their action in this effort, resulted in War. There was no desire to dissolve the Union, but to protect this property. The issue was made and it is decided." -- Sterling Cockrill, Alabama planter, in a letter to President Andrew Johnson, September 18, 1865.
 

unionblue

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#49
"With the social balance wheel of slavery to regulate its machinery, we may fondly indulge the hope that our Southern government will be perpetual..."

"...Louisiana looks to the formation of a Southern confederacy to preserve the blessings of African slavery, and of the free institutions of the founders of the Federal Union, bequeathed to their posterity." -- George Williamson, Louisiana State Commissioner, in a speech to the Texas Secession Convention on March 9, 1861, quoted by E. W. Winkler in the Journal of the Secession Convention of Texas, 1861.
 

unionblue

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#50
"I have never been in favor of the abolition of slavery until since this war has detirmend me in the conviction that it is a greater sin than our Government is able to stand...It is opposed to the Spirit of the age--and in my opinion this Rebellion is but the death struggle of the overgrown monster." --Eli K. Pickett, US Sergeant, in a letter to his wife, March 27, 1863.
 

unionblue

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#54
This exchange was published in the Report of the Joint Select Commitee, when Nathen Beford Forrest was called before it to testify after the war.

Q: "What do you think of negro suffrage?"

Forrest A: "I am opposed to it under any and all circumstances, and in our convention urged our party not to commit themselves at all upon the subject. If the negroes vote to enfranchise us, I do not think I would favor their disfranchisement. We will stand by those who help us. And here I want you to understand distinctly I am not an enemy to the negro. We want him here among us; he is the only laboring class we have; and, more than that, I would sooner trust him than the white scalawag or carpet-bagger. When I entered the army I took forty-seven negroes into the army with me, and forty-five of them were surrendered with me. Isaid to them at the start: 'This fight is against slavery; if we lose it, you will be made free; if we whip the fight, and you stay with me and be good boys, I will set you free; in either case you will be free.' These boys staid with me, drove my teams, and better confederates did not live."
 

shanniereb

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#55
I think you would find a lot in the ranks of the Southern Army who agree'd with those politicians.

"if slavery is to be abolished then I take no more interest in our fight."
Brig. Gen. Clement H. Stevens, AOT.

"...to fight forever, rather than submit to freeing negroes among us"
Captain Elias Davis of the 8th Alabama

" I mean that men who have not only been taught from their infancy that the institution of slavery was right; but men who actually owned and held slaves up to this time, --have now changed in their opinions regarding slavery, so as to be able to see the other side of the question, --to see that for man to have property in man was wrong, and that the “Declaration of Independence meant more than they had ever been able to see before. That all men are, and of right ought to be free”
Capt. Samuel T. Foster, Granbury's Texas Brigade after the surrender of the AoT. April 28, 1865


Kevin Dally
Once again these statements are from Officers, not the privates. Poor people have always been rich people's pawns.
 
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#56
War is driven by politics. What was important enough to go to war? War does not happen in a vacuum, but is something to risk blood and treasure over. Independence is just a word. Independence is too vague, something must drive the impulse for independence-there must be a reason.

The war aim of the Confederacy was driven by the politics which were independence to be a slave republic.
The aim of the Confederacy was to protect their institution of slavery. Sooner or later you're just going to have to deal with that.
 
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#57
Many Southern generals, like Robert E. Lee for instance, were against secession and simply fought because they lived in the South. Lee was offered to fight for the Union but he refused because he could not oppose his home state of Virginia. This goes for many Confederate soldiers, from the private up to the general.
Go a little bit further up the rebel food chain. Why did the Confederate leadership launch their rebellion in the first place? To protect slavery. That was the reason why all those generals and colonels and lieutenant colonels and on down the line to the most junior private were sent to fight.
 
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#58
The aim was independence, yes. The result would have been the preservation of slavery. The perceived threat to slavery,together with other reasons, prompted the desire for independence.
Which, translated into clear English, means that the reason for their rebellion was slavery. Or their motivation for the rebellion. Or the prompting for their rebellion. Or any other synonym you care to use. At the end of the day, the South rebelled to protect slavery and that was the reason why all those Southern men were sent to die.
 
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#59
Oh looky! I just looked in the bottom of a rabbit hole and guess what I found? I found a tariff and slavery wasn't attached to it. And in the next hole, I found the Chicago Platform, under it I found self-interest and greed.
 

CMWinkler

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#60
Which, translated into clear English, means that the reason for their rebellion was slavery. Or their motivation for the rebellion. Or the prompting for their rebellion. Or any other synonym you care to use. At the end of the day, the South rebelled to protect slavery and that was the reason why all those Southern men were sent to die.
Hmmmmm. If the war aim on the Union in 1861 was to preserve the union, then, clearly, the war aim of the Confederacy was independence. When the war aim of the Union changed to emancipation in 1863, the Confederate war aim remained independence. Now, slavery was a large part of the drive to secede, but that does nothing to change war aims.
 



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