Enfield Marked CSA

[Hank Scorpio]

Hello Everyone,

I hope this finds you well. I am looking to buy a 3 band enfield rifle and have started to do my research beforehand. I recently read the Confederate Enfield and continue to educate myself. I have seen some rifles marked 'C.S.A' on the stock. I am always very skeptical of anything labeled Confederate or CSA. It usually raises a red flag. But, did the confederacy have 2 band or 3 band Enfields marked 'C.S.A'?

Thanks,

Hank

 

[FedericoFCavada]

Certainly the CSA had very, very many two-band and three-band Enfields. Whether or not someone decided to "improve" the specimen they acquired by "humping it" (as the collector's term puts it) and adding "CSA" letters is another matter. The two-band was actually found to be the most accurate after skirmishers and sharpshooters expressed a preference for it and it was duly tested.

I have seen stock carvings on Civil War-era muskets, including authentic ones. One gentleman was pondering an odd marking with a cross on the stock of his flintlock converted to percussion musket and I proffered that it was a simple representation of a Confederate flag... It wasn't "real obvious" but I'm pretty sure that is what it was. Good luck! Enjoy acquiring your collection!

 

[johan_steele]

Before you buy invest in reference books. And never buy the story buy the artifact.

 

[JOHN42768]

Read and ask. Being skeptical is the right train of thought.

 

[Tom Elmore]

Hundreds of Confederate Enfields were picked up on Culp's Hill following the battle of Gettysburg. They had belonged to men of Lt. Gen. Richard Ewell's Second Corps, which had recently standardized on .58 caliber weapons. Here's an excerpt from a letter written by John M. Madden of the 109th Pennsylvania in the Union Twelfth Corps, which fought on Culp's Hill:

September 8, 1863, to his brother. "I have a rifle here now that was laying out on the Gettysburg battlefield and it is a regular Rebel one with sword bayonet and marked C-S-A, still nothing that belongs to our Government or is found on a battlefield can be taken home by anybody unless they are private property and have no Government mark on."

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Certainly the CSA had very, very many two-band and three-band Enfields. Whether or not someone decided to "improve" the specimen they acquired by "humping it" (as the collector's term puts it) and adding "CSA" letters is another matter. The two-band was actually found to be the most accurate after skirmishers and sharpshooters expressed a preference for it and it was duly tested.

I have seen stock carvings on Civil War-era muskets, including authentic ones. One gentleman was pondering an odd marking with a cross on the stock of his flintlock converted to percussion musket and I proffered that it was a simple representation of a Confederate flag... It wasn't "real obvious" but I'm pretty sure that is what it was. Good luck! Enjoy acquiring your collection!

Tha

Before you buy invest in reference books. And never buy the story buy the artifact.

Hundreds of Confederate Enfields were picked up on Culp's Hill following the battle of Gettysburg. They had belonged to men of Lt. Gen. Richard Ewell's Second Corps, which had recently standardized on .58 caliber weapons. Here's an excerpt from a letter written by John M. Madden of the 109th Pennsylvania in the Union Twelfth Corps, which fought on Culp's Hill:

September 8, 1863, to his brother. "I have a rifle here now that was laying out on the Gettysburg battlefield and it is a regular Rebel one with sword bayonet and marked C-S-A, still nothing that belongs to our Government or is found on a battlefield can be taken home by anybody unless they are private property and have no Government mark on."

Thanks for sharing. In the books I have read thus far (just starting) they have not made any mention of 'CSA' so this is very helpful. Does anyone have any articles or pictures of CSA cartouches on Enfields?

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Before you buy invest in reference books. And never buy the story buy the artifact.

Johan...that is exactly what I have been trying to do. Part of the joy of collecting, aside from owning a piece of history is learning as much as possible. Do you have any information you can share on Confederate Enfields? What to look for and what to avoid? Any literature you can point me to?

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

The best book on the market is "The English Connection" by Pritchard & Huey. It covers all presently known Confederate associated marks found on British pattern arms. None of those markings are "CSA".
Personalized carvings done by individual soldiers might include "CS" or "CSA", but those are not government applied stamped markings.

 

[johan_steele]

Johan...that is exactly what I have been trying to do. Part of the joy of collecting, aside from owning a piece of history is learning as much as possible. Do you have any information you can share on Confederate Enfields? What to look for and what to avoid? Any literature you can point me to?

The English Connection has been mentioned and I think that would be my first suggestion as a reference on the P53/56/58/60. My second suggestion would be to stick to established Vendors with a reputation for integrity. Tim Prince of College Hill Arsenal is one I would suggest.

I'm not a CS collector and am dubious of ANYTHING with supposed CSA provenance because that greatly increases price and is often spurious at best.

If I were wanting a CS Enfield I would look for a LA Co as, even if Brit Army marked, it's awfully close to what a private in the ANV was carrying. Or I'd look out for a Richmond as it was made by the CS. or I'd look for an Austrian Lorenz as that would become the symbol of the AoT CS. But that said I'm cheap with a nasty suspicious nature. And the wife says I can't buy anything more for two years.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Neither did the Confederate central government, private speculators, nor any of the states that purchased Enfields mark them with "CSA". They could have that mark added in the last 150+ years though. It's not "the kiss of death" on the gun, but will add nothing to the value either. Only buy the story if it comes with a stack of legitimate provenance.

Agree totally with Grayrock. Get The English Connection,before you spent your $$ on a "Confederate Enfield"

 

[UCVRelics]

@Lanyard Puller is spot on with No CS Government markings. Get some reference books and take your time, when the right one comes along you will know it and have the knowledge to pull the trigger on a good purchase.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

The English Connection has been mentioned and I think that would be my first suggestion as a reference on the P53/56/58/60. My second suggestion would be to stick to established Vendors with a reputation for integrity. Tim Prince of College Hill Arsenal is one I would suggest.

I'm not a CS collector and am dubious of ANYTHING with supposed CSA provenance because that greatly increases price and is often spurious at best.

If I were wanting a CS Enfield I would look for a LA Co as, even if Brit Army marked, it's awfully close to what a private in the ANV was carrying. Or I'd look out for a Richmond as it was made by the CS. or I'd look for an Austrian Lorenz as that would become the symbol of the AoT CS. But that said I'm cheap with a nasty suspicious nature. And the wife says I can't buy anything more for two years.

My wife said the same thing...haha sorry hunny!

 

[OldSarge79]

Part of the joy of collecting, aside from owning a piece of history is learning as much as possible. Do you have any information you can share on Confederate Enfields? What to look for and what to avoid?

I've been in the same position but finally got a copy of The English Connection last year. Great book, and with some personal tutoring from Lanyard Puller, I have learned a good bit, but I'm still learning. I check the numerous CW dealer sites every week, and when I see an Enfield advertised as Confederate, I compare it with the book and my notes. Occasionally I can spot a "questionable" piece, and not only do I learn more about Enfields, I also learn which dealers may not be so trustworthy. It's the next-best thing to holding a piece in your hands.
If you find an Enfield you are thinking of buying, by all means post a description and photos on this site. You will get plenty of solid advice.
Enjoy the search!

 

[Hank Scorpio]

I've been in the same position but finally got a copy of The English Connection last year. Great book, and with some personal tutoring from Lanyard Puller, I have learned a good bit, but I'm still learning. I check the numerous CW dealer sites every week, and when I see an Enfield advertised as Confederate, I compare it with the book and my notes. Occasionally I can spot a "questionable" piece, and not only do I learn more about Enfields, I also learn which dealers may not be so trustworthy. It's the next-best thing to holding a piece in your hands.
If you find an Enfield you are thinking of buying, by all means post a description and photos on this site. You will get plenty of solid advice.
Enjoy the search!

Thanks Sarge.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Hello Everyone,

I pulled the trigger (pun intended) on an Enfield. It was not advertised nor priced as a Confederate gun but is a good example. It is Birmingham Marked. The ramrod has a marking on it that I can't make out. I also got the bayonet and scabbard. The bayonet has a rack number on it. I thought I would share with the group and if anyone has an opinion on the gun or markings please feel free to chime in.

 

[WJC]

Very nice piece! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Jobe Holiday]

A nice export Birmingham made P-53.
J.

 

[Story]

Seems like a glut of Enfields around here lately. Is there some sort of tree they're blooming on now?

 

[OldSarge79]

It is indeed a nice Enfield.
Don't see any Confederate markings and not sure what to make of the stamped numbers on the bayonet. My guess on those is British.

 

[Seduzal]

Nice looking piece. Thanks for sharing.