Eagle Head Swords...

[tubs]

Condition is everything, as far as value goes.

Look, it's not a question of buying something out from under someone but it is impossible to give a reasonable appraisal. A dealer's wholesale price would max at a couple of hundred. These are not uncommon but do date before the ACW. You as a buyer, it is highly subjective. Your budget and interest are your guide. Shop around. As new, really no more than about $1,000 but will price higher. Your post, of a type that while interesting to me, has no value to me. I would repeat some of the previous mentions as take your time, shop around.

Assessing used cars for others has cost me friendships.

Shop around, compare prices. Saving thousands of images is really the best buy. Start with books while looking towards your own interests.

One picture posted to the drive through window doesn't offer any the ability to judge your variables. Are the fries moldy? Was that quarter pounder really a veggie burger? We've only had a small peek inside the bag. I see at least five reasons to not buy the sword.

Cheers

I was thinking a couple hundred of bucks. If I do get it, it would be the oldest sword in my collection. I would love to hear your 5 reasons not to buy.

 

[Glen_C]

" A dealer's wholesale price would max at a couple of hundred."


"...but will price higher"

If you are happy with it, who am I to judge.

Condition
Condition
Condition
Condition
Condition

5 parts of the sword that we get to see of it

A couple of hundred may suit your wants and would be an ok piece to flip on ebay.

What are a few hours of my research worth? I do not like assessing value for others.
So far, you can't even show the entire piece. If you already have made a decision, what more might I point out?

 

[tubs]

" A dealer's wholesale price would max at a couple of hundred."


"...but will price higher"

If you are happy with it, who am I to judge.

Condition
Condition
Condition
Condition
Condition

5 parts of the sword that we get to see of it

A couple of hundred may suit your wants and would be an ok piece to flip on ebay.

What are a few hours of my research worth? I do not like assessing value for others.
So far, you can't even show the entire piece. If you already have made a decision, what more might I point out?

Like i said I would love to hear your 5 pionts not to buy it.

 

[Glen_C]

Like i said I would love to hear your 5 pionts not to buy it.

All 5 parts of the sword that we get to see of it.

Actually alluded to in my first reply regarding your inquiries.

All five parts we see are only 'fair' but NRA 'good'

A sixth, my own perspective, as already posted. The sword has no material attraction to me.

 

[tubs]

All 5 parts of the sword that we get to see of it.

Actually alluded to in my first reply regarding your inquiries.

All five parts we see are only 'fair' but NRA 'good'

A sixth, my own perspective, as already posted. The sword has no material attraction to me.

I really appreciate your time and wisdom with this, thank you. You posted a picture of this sword from the Medicus Collection book. Just wonder if that book gives any information of this sword?

 

[Glen_C]

I wrote that I might look in the book and still am confident that there is a note there. There must be a dozen reading this that could pull that for you. It is going to say Solingen, it may list S.H.F. lots are unmarked. It will list the 1820s-1830s. C'mon guys check it for me, I forgot the last twelve times I walked past it.

The example I uploaded was not from the book and I clearly wrote where I uploaded it from, my (files linked earlier for you to view).

I take it you are on a phone and just miss a lot of what I've already written.

Yes, I could pull the book, transcribe or photo it for you, mebbe. I'll be honest, that it will be a lot more ambiguous than what I have posted here, and for any here to correct me. Ironically, Flayderman and Mowbray also just publish a half of a sword. B&W at that.

Why can't you share a picture of the entire sword?

 

[R. Porter]

Here is one from the Medicus collection in the Flayderman book. You may notice that most of the descriptive paragraphs stick to physical attributes and don't discuss attribute trends or speculate as to their meaning. You may find your sword illustrated but with no context supplied as to maker or narrow time range. This one looks like something made by Horstmann in the mid to late 1840's. I say that because the ferrule at the base of the grip looks like it could be a pattern used by Horstmann. The sword with the red background has a different looking pattern. It also has a different looking eagle, a more rounded grip, a back strap (I think) and a different looking Green Man langet. Also the knuckle bow isn't quite the same. In fact it looks nicer to me than the"Horstmann style" sword. Since Americans tend to copy others but be about 10 years behind the style being copied, I wonder if the red backed sword is 1820's to 1830's French in origin.

 

[Glen_C]

Yup, parts are parts. Note two of the plate share the pommel the past week has discussed in my first reply to the inquiry. The ferrule on C in the plate was rolled out by the mile. The ferrule of this inquiry is singular to me and the first thing I saw, with the rest more than common. First time I've seen tubs ferrule in this context and I've seen a few eagles. There are other similar ferrules from some other German sources and certainly where Widmann first started with the vines, leaves and grapes.

The guard like the older SHF swords but a decade or so later, trying to mimic a Widmann pommel with the 'collar'.

Oh wow, looky there, one of 'em is eating the guard like the Bragg sword

If you go to the German Produced and Berger folders in the link, you will see buckets of that pommel with dozens of varieties. Parts were parts.

 

[R. Porter]

So did a sword buyer get to order what parts he wanted based on style and cost or did he show up at the sword dealership and chose from what was available on the lot?

 

[Glen_C]

You tell me. In some cases. Look at Maiden lane in NYC. Look at Boston or Baltimore, Solingen or Paris. London or Birmingham. Parts are parts. Import, export all that jive. Bazelon telling us exactly that in his brief on trade blades.

You have more books than I do. They will all mention it.

 

[Glen_C]

I keep meaning to mention how small these late epee eagles are.

 

[Glen_C]

The sword vertical is a type VI Widmann (cadet likely) for scale. The Berger I showed earlier is there.

 

[tubs]

The sword vertical is a type VI Widmann (cadet likely) for scale. The Berger I showed earlier is there.

View attachment 575238

here some more pics

 

[tubs]

I'm just trying to understand this guys, sorry for my ignorance on the subject. Can we say this is a US infantry officers sword made in
Germany around 1820-1840 with parts from Simon Helvig & Fils from France? Am I correct in assuming the US didn't use model and year to describe their swords in this time frame like they did in the civil war era? What would you guys call this sword? Would just like to know what to call it if I get the dam thing. Thanks again, just trying to educate myself here.

 

[tubs]

 

[Glen_C]

militia

I see traces of silver wash/plate, which would be infantry vs artillery

A galvanic vs electro silvering one often sees as darkness in crevices


Thanks for posting the pictures. It almost seems more like you are composing ad copy to sell the item.

I never said Helvig was French. I did say the sword you presented was probably produced in Germany. I could write more for you but I'd be repeating myself. Having shared a large gallery with you for German Production, and mentioned it again, I'll mention it a third time in two days. Likely German produced. The Alsace area is a grey market between the two countries.

There were official federal models. There were thousands of variety in militia swords. Federal sword regulations were occurring just about every decade. Stuff like that is in the books.

 

[tubs]

militia

I see traces of silver wash/plate, which would be infantry vs artillery

A galvanic vs electro silvering one often sees as darkness in crevices


Thanks for posting the pictures. It almost seems more like you are composing ad copy to sell the item.

I never said Helvig was French. I did say the sword you presented was probably produced in Germany. I could write more for you but I'd be repeating myself. Having shared a large gallery with you for German Production, and mentioned it again, I'll mention it a third time in two days. Likely German produced. The Alsace area is a grey market between the two countries.

There were official federal models. There were thousands of variety in militia swords. Federal sword regulations were occurring just about every decade. Stuff like that is in the books.

Didn't say you said it was French, that was me trying to describe the sword. Helvig wasn't French? Let me ask you this, if you were composing an ad for sale what would you name this sword? I trying to buy this sword on auction and they call it "US Eagle Head Sword" Is that the best description of this sword?

 

[Glen_C]

...and now you have more information to read through again.

 

[major bill]

Couple nice ones here.

 

[R. Porter]

Three navy swords. I don't have any of this type and they are in better condition than an average sword in my collection.