Confederate War Aims

[leftyhunter]

Did Yankees? Did Californians?

California always had lots of Southeners. No Southern politican or civic group had a problem with US Indian policy in California or elsewhere.
Leftyhunter

I suggest a little reading on the subject and you should learn that virtually no one advocated racial equality in the 19th century, not even the abolitionists, Charles Sumner probably came the closest to it. I recommend as starters Leon Litwack's North of slavery. Unlike most leftist professors, Dr. Litwack tells both sides of the story. Litwack is or was a professor at the University of California, Berkeley, and as far as I know, has never written an article for the Abbeville Institute.

My point was simply that Yankees has American citizens had every right to insist that all Americans were treated equally. Any equal rights for people of color in the South came from outsiders never from white Southeners.
Leftyhunter

 

[th'anchoriticsybarite]

I would like to see a source on Lincoln trading cotton for arms that in of itself would of led to impeachment. It would be very difficult to keep that a secret. Either a state has miscegenation laws or they don't. The fact that Southern states did not voluntarily repeal them speaks volumes.
Again no contemporary Southern politican or civic society had no issue with racism against other non white groups.
Leftyhunter

I recently read an article in one of the CW magazines regarding Northern trading for Southern cotten. Evidently the trade-off made sense. Given the blockade Northern buyers could buy cotten which was in short supply and necessary to the Northern economy at below market price. It gave no advantage to the South given that they still had to penetrate the Northern blockade. As a net the North got more of a commodity that they needed than the South was able to translate into warmaking goods from abroad. I was actually shocked to learn of the practice but soon ralized that it made practical good sense.

 

[CSA Today]

California always had lots of Southeners. No Southern politican or civic group had a problem with US Indian policy in California or elsewhere.
Leftyhunter

I reckon my question to you would be did any whites other than those of southern origin have a problem with, blacks, Indians, Mexicans, Chinese, or other people of color?

 

[CSA Today]

California always had lots of Southeners. No Southern politican or civic group had a problem with US Indian policy in California or elsewhere.
Leftyhunter

My point was simply that Yankees has American citizens had every right to insist that all Americans were treated equally. Any equal rights for people of color in the South came from outsiders never from white Southeners.
Leftyhunter

Yeah, what makes Yankees so obnoxious is that they thought they had the right to tell everybody how to behave while ignoring their own rampant bigotry.
"A meddling Yankee troubles himself about every body's matters except his own and repents of everybody's sins except his own." General Daniel Harvey Hill

 

[uaskme]

California always had lots of Southeners. No Southern politican or civic group had a problem with US Indian policy in California or elsewhere.
Leftyhunter

You and others will never accept your state's or section's racism or bigotry. Even try to blame the South for it. Northern California and Oregon were majority settled by Northerners. Most of this stuff happened in those areas.

Just a Moral escape mechanism to discuss this stuff. Look at what you did. Can't compare it to what we did. Deny the rest. Entertaining.

 

[unionblue]

You and others will never accept your state's or section's racism or bigotry. Even try to blame the South for it. Northern California and Oregon were majority settled by Northerners. Most of this stuff happened in those areas.

Just a Moral escape mechanism to discuss this stuff. Look at what you did. Can't compare it to what we did. Deny the rest. Entertaining.

"Can't compare to what we did?"

Just how old are you?

 

[leftyhunter]

Did Yankees? Did Californians?

California always had lots of Southeners. No Southern politican or civic group had a problem with US Indian policy in California or elsewhere.
Leftyhunter

I suggest a little reading on the subject and you should learn that virtually no one advocated racial equality in the 19th century, not even the abolitionists, Charles Sumner probably came the closest to it. I recommend as starters Leon Litwack's North of slavery. Unlike most leftist professors, Dr. Litwack tells both sides of the story. Litwack is or was a professor at the University of California, Berkeley, and as far as I know, has never written an article for the Abbeville Institute.

My point was simply that Yankees has American citizens had every right to insist that all Americans were treated equally. Any equal rights for people of color in the South came from outsiders never from

Yeah, what makes Yankees so obnoxious is that they thought they had the right to tell everybody how to behave while ignoring their own rampant bigotry.
"A meddling Yankee troubles himself about every body's matters except his own and repents of everybody's sins except his own." General Daniel Harvey Hill

Then the Southeners should of beat the Yankees at their own game by transitioning rapidly to complete racial equality and show up the Yankees.
Leftyhunter

 

[CSA Today]

California always had lots of Southeners. No Southern politican or civic group had a problem with US Indian policy in California or elsewhere.
Leftyhunter

My point was simply that Yankees has American citizens had every right to insist that all Americans were treated equally. Any equal rights for people of color in the South came from outsiders never from

Then the Southeners should of beat the Yankees at their own game by transitioning rapidly to complete racial equality and show up the Yankees.
Leftyhunter

Why? If the North with their few blacks thought blacks were such a problem the South with their many blacks would have surely thought so. In any case, it didn't give the North the right to preach to others about civil rights and racial equality.

 

[OpnCoronet]

At the time we didn't even have a concept of citizenship. Nobody was a US citizen per se, they were either native born or not. and being native born or not had nothing to do with whether you could vote, in many cases. Late in the war many Northern Democrats still fought, but as a percent of the able bodied population, that % was likely very low, which is why, by Jan 65, the million man Yankee army was about only 40% native born whites, with another 20% germans off the boat and into uniforms, 20% irish off the boat and into uniforms, and the rest blacks, freeborn and contraband. Northern Whites had long since volunteering for the slaughter, esp after the Overland Campaign.

An interesting factoid.

 

[leftyhunter]

Did Yankees? Did Californians?

California always had lots of Southeners. No Southern politican or civic group had a problem with US Indian policy in California or elsewhere.
Leftyhunter

I suggest a little reading on the subject and you should learn that virtually no one advocated racial equality in the 19th century, not even the abolitionists, Charles Sumner probably came the closest to it. I recommend as starters Leon Litwack's North of slavery. Unlike most leftist professors, Dr. Litwack tells both sides of the story. Litwack is or was a professor at the University of California, Berkeley, and as far as I know, has never written an article for the Abbeville Institute.

My point was simply that Yankees has American citizens had every right to insist that all Americans were treated equally. Any equal rights for people of color in the South came from outsiders never from

Yeah, what makes Yankees so obnoxious is that they thought they had the right to tell everybody how to behave while ignoring their own rampant bigotry.
"A meddling Yankee troubles himself about every body's matters except his own and repents of everybody's sins except his own." General Daniel Harvey Hill

Then the Southeners should of beat the Yankees at their own game by transitioning rapidly to complete racial equality and show up the Yankees.
Leftyhunter

I reckon my question to you would be did any whites other than those of southern origin have a problem with, blacks, Indians, Mexicans, Chinese, or other people of color?

California's record of racial relations is quite different from the South's

Why? If the North with their few blacks thought blacks were such a problem the South with their many blacks would have surely thought so. In any case, it didn't give the North the right to preach to others about civil rights and racial equality.

There is no justification for racial discrimination. It's true racial discrimination occurred in all sections in the United States. On the other hand only outside pressure ended slavery and no Southern state voluntarily rejected de jure racial discrimination.
Leftyhunter

 

[Piedone]

I think @CSA Today ist not advocating racial discrimination or stating that the South was anyhow against racial discrimination.

I am even sure that it is a common understanding between us all that the ending of slavery was a tremendous leap forward and that this of course was made only possible with the victory of the North.

I deem the point of @CSA Today is that the stance towards racial equality was not all too different between North and South.

You could probably very well join a fight to end slavery with all it´s atrocious aspects and (rightly) feel good about it
but still don´t like the idea of racial equality in your own home town or home state - at least if that racial equality affected a relevant part of your own society.

 

[CSA Today]

I think @CSA Today ist not advocating racial discrimination or stating that the South was anyhow against racial discrimination.

I am even sure that it is a common understanding between us all that the ending of slavery was a tremendous leap forward and that this of course was made only possible with the victory of the North.

I deem the point of @CSA Today is that the stance towards racial equality was not all too different between North and South.

You could probably very well join a fight to end slavery with all it´s atrocious aspects and (rightly) feel good about it
but still don´t like the idea of racial equality in your own home town or home state - at least if that racial equality affected a relevant part of your own society.

Exactly, despite the overwhelming majority of blacks lived in the South in the 1860s.

 

[uaskme]

"Can't compare to what we did?"

Just how old are you?

Old enough to see thru Spew.

 

[uaskme]

Exactly, despite the overwhelming majority of blacks lived in the South in the 1860s.

North didn't want Blacks Free or Slave. So how congenital of them advocating some rights to a population they had no Intention of living with? 99% Lilly White, and couldn't get along with all those. Catholics and Jews moved to the South for Protection.

Talk about the Cancel Culture. Colonization, forcing Blacks back onto the plantations, Banning Asians. Race War with Native Americans and recruiting Nordic Replacements for them. I don't recall Grant advocating any Rights for the Native Americans or Chinese.

Don't recall Grant advocating Free Love with any of these groups either? Maybe @unionblue or @leftyhunter can help us out?

 

[OpnCoronet]

If it has not already been pointed out, the war aims of the csa, were clearly stated in Jefferson Davis Inaugural Address.

 

[CSA Today]

North didn't want Blacks Free or Slave. So how congenital of them advocating some rights to a population they had no Intention of living with? 99% Lilly White, and couldn't get along with all those. Catholics and Jews moved to the South for Protection.

Talk about the Cancel Culture. Colonization, forcing Blacks back onto the plantations, Banning Asians. Race War with Native Americans and recruiting Nordic Replacements for them. I don't recall Grant advocating any Rights for the Native Americans or Chinese.

Don't recall Grant advocating Free Love with any of these groups either? Maybe @unionblue or @leftyhunter can help us out?

Probably more don't do as I do but do as I say.

 

[unionblue]

double post.

 

[unionblue]

Old enough to see thru Spew.

The "we" in your above post gives the idea you were there or are taking personally the events that took place over 150 years ago.

That's a bad place to be and your reply above to that observation tends to lead to the idea you enjoy staying there.

So be it, you want to take history personal and are tired of it being disputed with the version you are comfortable with.

"Spew" doesn't even come close to what you have decided is worth discussing about on this forum,.

 

[unionblue]

North didn't want Blacks Free or Slave. So how congenital of them advocating some rights to a population they had no Intention of living with? 99% Lilly White, and couldn't get along with all those. Catholics and Jews moved to the South for Protection.

Talk about the Cancel Culture. Colonization, forcing Blacks back onto the plantations, Banning Asians. Race War with Native Americans and recruiting Nordic Replacements for them. I don't recall Grant advocating any Rights for the Native Americans or Chinese.

Don't recall Grant advocating Free Love with any of these groups either? Maybe @unionblue or @leftyhunter can help us out?

Sorry, I don't do fantasy.

 

[leftyhunter]

North didn't want Blacks Free or Slave. So how congenital of them advocating some rights to a population they had no Intention of living with? 99% Lilly White, and couldn't get along with all those. Catholics and Jews moved to the South for Protection.

Talk about the Cancel Culture. Colonization, forcing Blacks back onto the plantations, Banning Asians. Race War with Native Americans and recruiting Nordic Replacements for them. I don't recall Grant advocating any Rights for the Native Americans or Chinese.

Don't recall Grant advocating Free Love with any of these groups either? Maybe @unionblue or @leftyhunter can help us out?

Many African Americans did emigrate outside the South. Many states never had Miscegenation Laws at any time such has NY. Yes many years after the ACW there were laws that limited Asian Immigration with no protest from Southern politicans or civic groups. Yes Indians were removed by force as they were in the South. No Southeners had any problems with that policy in the Nineteenth Century. If we critize Grant for not supporting a repeal of the racist Miscegenation Laws then to be fair we must also critize all states that had them including California although California got rid of it's Miscegenation Laws well before the South did and on its own accord something we say about the South.
Leftyhunter