Confederate War Aims

Keeping in mind that in the Ohio Valley a young
There is always something to tarnish, one of the reasons the 1776 rebels seceded was to have a free hand to steal Indian land in the Ohio Valley.
Keeping in mind Southeners such has George Washington were enthusiastic proponents of stealing Indian Land.
Leftyhunter
 
The war aim of independence is tarnished by the fact the states seceded to preserve slavery.
Not true because slavery was perfectly legal in the British Empire until 1837. The Southern colonies were not in favor as the Northern colonies in eliminating slavery.
Leftyhunter
 
So the culprits responsible for the Lincoln Memorial were ****s?

"Then came the Black Hawk War; and I was elected a Captain of Volunteers - a success which gave me more pleasure than any I have had since."
Abraham Lincoln, December 20, 1859.
Lincoln never actually engaged in combat against the Indians.
Name any Nineteenth Century Southern politicans who advocated giving back land taken from the Indians are who condemended any killings of Indians.
Leftyhunter
 
Not sure what your argument is. It sounds like you don't believe in equal rights.
Leftyhunter


It's not about you or I believe, It what white folks believed in the 19th​ century -- North, South, Mid-West, California, and elsewhere believed. Abraham Lincoln pretty much summed it up:

"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people, and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."
 
Lincoln never actually engaged in combat against the Indians.
Name any Nineteenth Century Southern politicans who advocated giving back land taken from the Indians are who condemended any killings of Indians.
Leftyhunter
The Illinois Indians were sent packing across the Mississippi River before he got the chance. It wasn't Lincoln's fought he didn't get the opportunity. He had volunteered to so, still boasting about as late as December 1859.
 
The Illinois Indians were sent packing across the Mississippi River before he got the chance. It wasn't Lincoln's fought he didn't get the opportunity. He had volunteered to so, still boasting about as late as December 1859.
Yes a politican brags about military service and water is wet. Still Lincoln didn't actually fight Indians. Yes Union troops under his administration killed Indians but has pointed out many times before Indian civilians were killed by Confedrate troops as well under the Davis Adminstration. If we condem Lincoln for harming Indians so must we do the same for Davis.
Leftyhunter
 
It's not about you or I believe, It what white folks believed in the 19th​ century -- North, South, Mid-West, California, and elsewhere believed. Abraham Lincoln pretty much summed it up:

"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people, and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."
Yet Lincoln evolved since his 1858 speech vs Davis and other Southern political leaders fought for racial superiority for many decades after the ACW.
Leftyhunter
 
Yet Lincoln evolved since his 1858 speech vs Davis and other Southern political leaders fought for racial superiority for many decades after the ACW.
Leftyhunter
Evolved or saw an opportunity for the Republican Party to dominate the South?

If we lose this war, these people will be telling us how to live for the next 500 years."
Gen. Patrick Cleburne
 
It's not about you or I believe, It what white folks believed in the 19th​ century -- North, South, Mid-West, California, and elsewhere believed. Abraham Lincoln pretty much summed it up:

"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people, and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."
But of course, it is unfair (if not inaccurate) to freeze Lincoln's biased statement in 1858 as representing Lincoln's belief in his entire lifetime. Lincoln's views on African-Americans evolved quickly and positively during the war, by which time he at least acknowledged that community's political rights. Lincoln wrote on August 26, 1863:

"There will be some black men who can remember that, with silent tongue, and clenched teeth, and steady eye, and well-poised bayonet, they have helped mankind on to this consummation; while, I fear, there will be some white ones, unable to forget that, with indignant heart and deceitful speech, they have strove to hinder it."
 
Yes a politican brags about military service and water is wet. Still Lincoln didn't actually fight Indians. Yes Union troops under his administration killed Indians but has pointed out many times before Indian civilians were killed by Confedrate troops as well under the Davis Adminstration. If we condem Lincoln for harming Indians so must we do the same for Davis.
Leftyhunter
A case of monkey see monkey do? :roflmao:
 
Evolved or saw an opportunity for the Republican Party to dominate the South?

If we lose this war, these people will be telling us how to live for the next 500 years."
Gen. Patrick Cleburne
The South is part of the US . Its not like Southeners haven't expressed their political views post ACW. Americans have the First Amendment right to express themselves.
Leftyhunter
 
But of course, it is unfair (if not inaccurate) to freeze Lincoln's biased statement in 1858 as representing Lincoln's belief in his entire lifetime. Lincoln's views on African-Americans evolved quickly and positively during the war, by which time he at least acknowledged that community's political rights. Lincoln wrote on August 26, 1863:
How much of this evolving attitude was adopted out side the South?
 
No it's a case of both sides killing Indian's.
Not seeing the humor. No Nineteenth Century prominent Southener had a problem with removing or fighting Indians.
Leftyhunter
If the Yankee nation was so eager to imitate everything Southerners did what's their beef against the South?

"If we lose this war, these people will be telling us how to live for the next 500 years."
Gen. Patrick Cleburne
 
How much of this evolving attitude was adopted out side the South?
To be clear. I believe that social, political, and cultural racism (not talking here about slavery) was endemic to both north and south both before and after the war. Speaking of Lincoln only, however, it can be said that he was able to rise above his previously held racial beliefs under the impact of the role of African-American soldiers and his ties with Frederick Douglas.
 
Evolved or saw an opportunity for the Republican Party to dominate the South?
I haven't read evidence that Lincoln's evolved views on African-Americans were simply a cynical political calculation on his part. That might have played a large part in the thinking of certain Radical Republicans, but Lincoln not.
 
To be clear. I believe that social, political, and cultural racism (not talking here about slavery) was endemic to both north and south both before and after the war. Speaking of Lincoln only, however, it can be said that he was able to rise above his previously held racial beliefs under the impact of the role of African-American soldiers and his ties with Frederick Douglas.

Whatever Lincoln's evolution of racial attitudes it didn't make much of an impression in the North until well into the 20th​ century, if then.
 

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