Captain William C. Quantrill, CSA

...And, of course, Pitt is based on the real character Archie Clements. Watch the clip above. Note where the older raider says to Jake Roedel: "He'll have your scalp if you don't watch out." That's pure Archie Clements....

Late in the movie, Jake encounters Pitt once again. Pitt wants to go into a nearby town to have a drink. Jake tells him they'll kill him for sure. Pitt says he's going anyway.

In real life, Archie went into Lexington and with two of his companions, he went to get a drink.
A few minutes later, he was accosted by some soldiers, made a break for it and was shot off his horse. Not that he didn't deserve it.... I'm just saying there are a lot of little passages in this film that are so accurately based on real life events of that era.
 
Archie was shot off his horse near the Lafayette County court house in Lexington, Missouri.

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The court house still contains a cannon ball in a pillar from the First Battle of Lexington, Missouri

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* Photos courtesy of William Bechmann (2013)
 
You have that exactly right, Bill. It might have been on a side street within view of the court house. I am frankly not sure. But I've got a cousin living in Lexington who knows a local guide who will show us the exact spot the next time I'm up there. I also want to see Archie's grave--not to pay homage as much as to just be sure he is STILL buried. I believe it's in Napoleon, MO. It'll be sort of a curiosity to me. I hate to be callous about that, but that's the way I feel. So many things happened in Lexington. That cannon ball got lodged in the court house column very early in the war. It would not be the last time that war came to Lexington.
 
If anyone is interested in a short history of it, it is in the Early summer 2014 of the Civil War Quarterly starts on page 88. I am going to try to talk our unit into using this battle next summers Fathers Day at Turkeyville. We alreading have 300 feet of trenches and log works with a blockhouse on a nice rise.View attachment 45686
 

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Yes, most of you know hemp was grown for its stalk and not its leaves in those days. Gen. Shelby was a prominent hemp planter before the war. It was grown extensively throughout central Missouri. In the river bottom fields near here, wild clumps of hemp still pop up once in a while wherever weeds are allowed to grow. Those bales in the Lexington fight were near a river landing, awaiting shipment. I can barely imagine the effort it took to roll them up the hill. But that's all a different story--and one well worth studying for anyone who has never read about it.
 
Referring back to RIDE WITH THE DEVIL, there's another scene that is based on a true incident. The boys have approached a lady and her daughter, asking for breakfast. She invites them in and cooks for them. While they're eating they find the house surrounded by a Union patrol and they have to fight their way out. This is based on an incident called the Tate House Fight. The main difference is that the real fight happened at night. Quantrill did go to a frame ell on the back of the house for the breakout. Some accounts say he ordered shotguns to the front, but not everyone agrees on that point. In any event, the boys rushed out, firing to either side, and killed or wounded a number of the Union men and unnerved others. They broke for the nearby woods and most made their escape. Two of the boys attempted to surrender. A couple of others were seen in the flames of the house, which had been torched. All historians agree that Quantrill became much more vigilant about posting lookouts after that fight. In the movie, Daniel Holt leads the breakout. I've read one statement that John Noland led the real breakout, but I think that writer might have confused the events of the movie with the real thing. Most historians say Quantrill led the breakout. I believe John McCorckle says Quantrill was the leader. I haven't checked recently. The point of this, though, is that Quantrill started out as a pretty crafty leader, but made some tactical mistakes early in the war (failure to post lookouts, attacking brick buildings and so on). He quickly grew much wiser about such things.
 
Northern Light, it was the way it was. There wasn't a lot of fun to be had in those days, so hangings and displaying bodies partially filled the gaps. Along with burgoo festivals and other such diversions. Sunday socials if you weren't too remote.

I suspect it wasn't all that much different in rural Canada.

Bodies of notorious figures on both sides of the conflict were frequently mutilated and pieces put on display after they were killed. There are stories of existing graves being disinterred and filled with bodies of soldiers. Churches in the south were reported to be used as horse stables. War is an ugly business.
 
Northern Light, it was the way it was. There wasn't a lot of fun to be had in those days, so hangings and displaying bodies partially filled the gaps. Along with burgoo festivals and other such diversions. Sunday socials if you weren't too remote.

I suspect it wasn't all that much different in rural Canada.

No, you are right, violence always seems to titillate people. Except that we didn't have burgoo festivals, we had "bees" and"frolics" which generally ended up with tons of food of one sort or another.
 
Bodies of notorious figures on both sides of the conflict were frequently mutilated and pieces put on display after they were killed. There are stories of existing graves being disinterred and filled with bodies of soldiers. Churches in the south were reported to be used as horse stables. War is an ugly business.
If you have seen the movie "Pharoah's Army", you will remember that it start with the disinterment of the heroine's small daughter from her grave in a Union cemetery because the child's father was fighting for the South. It is so hard to believe that anyone could be so cruel, but war seems always seems to bring out the very worst (as well as the very best) in people. I wonder how people who did such horrible things felt about themselves after the high fevers of sectionalism dissipated?
 
I used to believe he was a bloodthirsty murderer and nothing more. However, after reading hundreds of pages about him by authors who demonize him, some who idolize him and some who attempt to be objective about him, my views have changed a bit.

It seems to me there was a very peculiar duality about him, insofar as he was capable of cold blooded deeds and of kind deeds. Even Connelly, the Kansas historian who mostly demonizes Quantrill, recognizes this.

Quantrill had a particularly chivalrous attitude toward women and would not tolerate their mistreatment. I believe it was McCorckle who said it was well known that the penalty for any of his men mistreating a woman would be summary execution by Quantrill himself.

Quantrill actually protected a number of people at Lawrence, who agreed to surrender to him if they would not be shot. These he placed under his personal protection at one hotel while other hotels were being burned. On the other hand, he kidnapped a number of people to use as guides--one at a time--on his approach to Lawrence because he was advancing on the town from an unfamiliar direction and through a series of tangled creeks and woods during the night. Seven or eight of these guides were shot, one at a time, as they got to the limits of the countryside they knew, and he would ride up to a farmhouse and kidnap another.

In another instance, George Todd recognized a farmer with whom he had a grudge. He was going to shoot the man, but Quantrill stopped him for fear the shot might be heard in Lawrence and give warning about their approach. But he had no qualms about allowing Todd to beat the man's brains out with the butt of a musket.

Another time, Quantrill had a union lieutenant as a hostage. He was hoping to trade this man for one of his own men who was in custody in a union occupied town. The lieutenant struck a deal with Quantrill. He would enter the town and personally speak to the senior officer there about the trade. If he was unsuccessful, he gave his word of honor to return to Quantrill to face his own execution. Quantrill's man was hung. True to his word, the union officer returned and surrendered to Quantrill, stating that he had tried his best. Quantrill told his men that it would not be right to execute a man as honest and brave as this, and he let the lieutenant go free.

There's no denying that Quantrill rode to Lawrence with a death list of "most wanted" people. But it was his men who did the wanton sacking and killing. And, further, it was not ALL of his men. Several were so disgusted that they refused to participate. William Gregg left him after Lawrence, as did a number of others.

I believe Quantrill's command fell apart in the winter of 1863-64 because Todd and Anderson thought he was too soft on yankees. In any event, he spent a good part of the 1864 bushwhacking season more or less "retired" in Howard County, Missouri while Anderson and Todd doubled up on their ruthlessness.

It was during that same year that one of Quantrill's former men spotted a fine horse that he wanted to steal from a Howard County widow. He told the widow's slave to bring him the horse. Instead, the slave informed the widow and she had him take the horse to town and sell it before it could be stolen. The bushwhacker later accosted and murdered the slave for "double crossing" him. Word of this got to Quantrill, who met the offending bushwhacker near Clark's Chapel and executed him on the spot.

Quantrill was capable of demonic actions, but was far too complicated a man to simply be written off as a demon. He was never very well understood in life. It is impossible to fully understand him nearly 150 years after his death.

In my view, Anderson and Clements are better candidates for demonization.

Very good information on a personality of the CW that I admittedly do not know as much about as I should. However, I would like to point something out that I learned as a young Army officer that I am sure is as true today as it was back then: a Commander is not only responsible for what his men do, but also what they fail to do.

I'm not trying to be overly critical of this post but I must take exception to the attempt at defending Quantrill as innocent for things that his men do.
 
Today is the 151st anniversary of the Lawrence Massacre of 1863 conducted by Captain William C. Quantrill, CSA.

Question : Was this man a faithful soldier or a bloody murderer?

* Virginia contains the most American Civil War conflicts. Tennessee is second on the list. Missouri is third.....
He was a faithful "combatant' (IMO. he was not deserving of the title "soldier')--and faithful to himself, being an immoral murderer...
 
Very good information on a personality of the CW that I admittedly do not know as much about as I should. However, I would like to point something out that I learned as a young Army officer that I am sure is as true today as it was back then: a Commander is not only responsible for what his men do, but also what they fail to do.

I'm not trying to be overly critical of this post but I must take exception to the attempt at defending Quantrill as innocent for things that his men do.
And there is a constant, Warren. Was Sherman responsible for what some of his men did during the March? Was Lee responsible for what some of his men did during the Campaign into Pennsylvania?

We here mostly agree that the Army commander is responsible for his people. When you have 60 or 70,000 men under you command, where do you draw the line?

It's not like that HE did it; just that he was powerless to monitor it and stop it.
 
Oh yes, I understand that. Like I said, I wasn't trying to be critical of the post. I believe the same about Lee and Sherman so there is no double standard. But remember the case of Lieutenant Calley at My Lai and how, even though there were higher-ranking officers involved Calley was the only officer court martialed using this same principle.

It doesn't matter how many men are under one's control-a Commander is STILL responsible for what his men do and also what they fail to do.

'Someone' else decides who should and should not be punished...
 
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I used to believe he was a bloodthirsty murderer and nothing more. However, after reading hundreds of pages about him by authors who demonize him, some who idolize him and some who attempt to be objective about him, my views have changed a bit.

It seems to me there was a very peculiar duality about him, insofar as he was capable of cold blooded deeds and of kind deeds. Even Connelly, the Kansas historian who mostly demonizes Quantrill, recognizes this.

Quantrill had a particularly chivalrous attitude toward women and would not tolerate their mistreatment. I believe it was McCorckle who said it was well known that the penalty for any of his men mistreating a woman would be summary execution by Quantrill himself.

Quantrill actually protected a number of people at Lawrence, who agreed to surrender to him if they would not be shot. These he placed under his personal protection at one hotel while other hotels were being burned. On the other hand, he kidnapped a number of people to use as guides--one at a time--on his approach to Lawrence because he was advancing on the town from an unfamiliar direction and through a series of tangled creeks and woods during the night. Seven or eight of these guides were shot, one at a time, as they got to the limits of the countryside they knew, and he would ride up to a farmhouse and kidnap another.

In another instance, George Todd recognized a farmer with whom he had a grudge. He was going to shoot the man, but Quantrill stopped him for fear the shot might be heard in Lawrence and give warning about their approach. But he had no qualms about allowing Todd to beat the man's brains out with the butt of a musket.

Another time, Quantrill had a union lieutenant as a hostage. He was hoping to trade this man for one of his own men who was in custody in a union occupied town. The lieutenant struck a deal with Quantrill. He would enter the town and personally speak to the senior officer there about the trade. If he was unsuccessful, he gave his word of honor to return to Quantrill to face his own execution. Quantrill's man was hung. True to his word, the union officer returned and surrendered to Quantrill, stating that he had tried his best. Quantrill told his men that it would not be right to execute a man as honest and brave as this, and he let the lieutenant go free.

There's no denying that Quantrill rode to Lawrence with a death list of "most wanted" people. But it was his men who did the wanton sacking and killing. And, further, it was not ALL of his men. Several were so disgusted that they refused to participate. William Gregg left him after Lawrence, as did a number of others.

I believe Quantrill's command fell apart in the winter of 1863-64 because Todd and Anderson thought he was too soft on yankees. In any event, he spent a good part of the 1864 bushwhacking season more or less "retired" in Howard County, Missouri while Anderson and Todd doubled up on their ruthlessness.

It was during that same year that one of Quantrill's former men spotted a fine horse that he wanted to steal from a Howard County widow. He told the widow's slave to bring him the horse. Instead, the slave informed the widow and she had him take the horse to town and sell it before it could be stolen. The bushwhacker later accosted and murdered the slave for "double crossing" him. Word of this got to Quantrill, who met the offending bushwhacker near Clark's Chapel and executed him on the spot.

Quantrill was capable of demonic actions, but was far too complicated a man to simply be written off as a demon. He was never very well understood in life. It is impossible to fully understand him nearly 150 years after his death.

In my view, Anderson and Clements are better candidates for demonization.
Patrick, you are one of the most knowledgeable people about Missouri here at CWT, and you are a great resource to us all. I appreciate your continually taking the time to write thoughtful, substantial posts to share the knowledge you've gained over the years.

I would agree that Quantrill was not purely evil, if for no other reason than that I doubt any human being can be purely evil.

As I was reading your post, I couldn't help thinking of Hezbollah, in Lebanon. They keep local people's loyalty partly if not mostly through intimidation, but they also gain allies through services they provide the local population such as clinics and schools.

I also am reminded once again that one of the worst things about war is that, besides the organized violence, it sets loose the worst elements in society. A certain percentage of the population, including in peacetime, is sociopaths and psychopaths. Societies in good condition can limit the scope of the damage these sick individuals can do. But when society's stabilizing structures are destroyed by war, these elements are set loose.

One of Owen Parry's Civil War mysteries (the third book in his series of six), Call Each River Jordan, offers a tremendously disturbing picture of what psychos and sickos can do when the chaos of war removes all the usual inhibitions.

Most folks here on the site turn up their nose at the movie Shenandoah, but the most horrifying scene in the movie (to me, at least) -- the thug ascending the stairs to rape and murder the young mother -- depicts something that happens in every war.

I don't know enough to say whether Quantrill was as bad as the people I just described, but I think we can say that, on a moral spectrum, he and/or some of his men were closer to that Shenandoah thug than they were to Robert E. Lee.
 
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Patrick, you are one of the most knowledgeable people about Missouri here at CWT, and you are a great resource to us all. I appreciate your continually taking the time to write thoughtful, substantial posts to share the knowledge you've gained over the years.

I would agree that Quantrill was not purely evil, if for no other reason than that I doubt any human being can be purely evil.

As I was reading your post, I couldn't help thinking of Hezbollah, in Lebanon. They keep local people's loyalty partly if not mostly through intimidation, but they also gain allies through services they provide the local population such as clinics and schools.

I also am reminded once again that one of the worst things about war is that, besides the organized violence, it sets loose the worst elements in society. A certain percentage of the population, including in peacetime, is sociopaths and psychopaths. Societies in good condition can limit the scope of the damage these sick individuals can do. But when society's stabilizing structures are destroyed by war, these elements are set loose.

One of Owen Parry's Civil War mysteries (the third book in his series of six), Call Each River Babylon, offers a tremendously disturbing picture of what psychos and sickos can do when the chaos of war removes all the usual inhibitions.

Most folks here on the site turn up their nose at the movie Shenandoah, but the most horrifying scene in the movie (to me, at least) -- the thug ascending the stairs to rape and murder the young mother -- depicts something that happens in every war.

I don't know enough to say whether Quantrill was as bad as the people I just described, but I think we can say that he and/or some of his men were closer to that Shenandoah thug on the spectrum than they were to Robert E. Lee.

Pat is definitely a gem!!!
 
I would agree that that scene in "Shenandoah" is the most horrifying scene in that movie. I have always enjoyed that movie on a whole.

I am sure both sides did unspeakable things to innocent people as well as soldiers. War is terrible. That is just the sum of it. In my mind there really are no winners and losers as so many suffer and lose.

I however, do believe there are some people who are just evil. I know we aren't suppose to mention any modern ones but a great example is Hitler and another for our time is Isis. They just beheaded another group of Christians. I don't know how much more evil you can get.

If this gets deleted, I do understand.

As to Quantrill I believe he was a very complicated person. I think he started as a soldier but as time and the horrors of war continued, he turned to a cold killer.
 
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