Captain William C. Quantrill, CSA

[LtRusell]

There is disagreement about that very question. He did go to Richmond to seek an official commission. When he returned, he claimed he was a colonel. There is even a portrait of him (retouched clumsily by hand) showing him in a colonel's coat. You'll run into people who argue this point both ways, and I don't know the answer. If he was truly commissioned, there ought to be a record of it somewhere.

The paper trail of the Confederate Government has a lot of holes in it. For example the Commandant of the CSMC took the records for his branch home with him. The home burned soon after. All but a few records survive.

I doubt that Davis meeting with a partisan (unless he tracked mud on his white carpet as Stonewall did) might have slipped through. Davis didn't take the commands in the west as seriously as he did in the east. I believe there is a quote about Forrest to the extent that had Davis known what FOrrest was doing, and what a bold fighter he was, he would have considered him more than a guerrilla chief.

 

[Booner]

........
But back to Quantrill. Was he commissioned a captain or self appointed?

I believe he was made a Lieutenant in the CSA by Col Upton Hays (CSA) after Q's band helped Hays' command defeat the Union at the First Battle of Independence, Mo. Aug. 10, 1862.
I do not know if he was ever officially made a Captain, but as he was the recognized leader of a ever growing band of guerrilla's he made have been given that title by the men serving under him.
In the Spring of 1863 he went to Richmond, VA in the hopes of being made a Colonel under the Partisan Ranger Act but was refused that rank.
In March of 1864 he met with Gen. Price who instructed Q to reduce his command to 84 men, the rest were to be sent into regular CSA service. Q was to be Colonel of the remaining 84 men and to be in charge of all guerrillas in western MO. ,Todd to be a captain, Anderson 1st Lt. and "Fletch Taylor 2nd Lt. This reorganization never occurred, as Q's band fell apart into various factions as soon as he returned from his visit with Gen. Price. No records exist that he was ever awarded a Colonelcy.

 

[SWMODave]

Good information Booner. What do you think of the theory that Price may have given him the rank, after Richmond refused? I have read where after this trip and meeting with Price on the return trip, Price was supposed to have sent correspondences addressing him as Col Quantrill. Don't even remember where I have read that.

 

[Booner]

Good information Booner. What do you think of the theory that Price may have given him the rank, after Richmond refused? I have read where after this trip and meeting with Price on the return trip, Price was supposed to have sent correspondences addressing him as Col Quantrill. Don't even remember where I have read that.

I believe Price did. If he wasn't in the process of planning his "64 invasion of MO. he was thinking about it and knew he needed the help of all of the "Boys of the Bush" to help him. Giving Q. that title would help him. When Price meet with Anderson in Boonville, Price said something to the effect that "If I had 50,000 such men (as Anderson) I could hold MO forever."
Maybe Price wasn't as much as a "gentleman" as the boys back in Richmond.

 

[archieclement]

I believe he was made a Lieutenant in the CSA by Col Upton Hays (CSA) after Q's band helped Hays' command defeat the Union at the First Battle of Independence, Mo. Aug. 10, 1862.
I do not know if he was ever officially made a Captain, but as he was the recognized leader of a ever growing band of guerrilla's he made have been given that title by the men serving under him.
In the Spring of 1863 he went to Richmond, VA in the hopes of being made a Colonel under the Partisan Ranger Act but was refused that rank.
In March of 1864 he met with Gen. Price who instructed Q to reduce his command to 84 men, the rest were to be sent into regular CSA service. Q was to be Colonel of the remaining 84 men and to be in charge of all guerrillas in western MO. ,Todd to be a captain, Anderson 1st Lt. and "Fletch Taylor 2nd Lt. This reorganization never occurred, as Q's band fell apart into various factions as soon as he returned from his visit with Gen. Price. No records exist that he was ever awarded a Colonelcy.

Came across this today, page 121 Gray Ghost sof the Confederacy theres a letter to Col Q from Prices staff on Nov 2 1863, this is as he's on his way to winter quarters, So he was acknowledged a colonel before the 64 raid or the march 64 meeting

 

[LtRusell]

Was it a proper commission or field? Just wondering.

 

[Patrick H]

Was it a proper commission or field? Just wondering.

Some others might know for sure. I don't. I've seen lots of disagreement about whether he was commissioned in any way, or whether he just claimed to be.

 

[LtRusell]

I forget where it was, on a raid in middle Tennessee I think, Forrest was just a colonel. The boys in blue had got a bunch of stuff, wagons, barrels, ya know a hastily thrown together thin so they would get their tukus shot off. I'm not sure who had the upper hand, the garrison. When they asked who was in there it was a union colonel. So it was a standoff.

Forrest rose in the saddle and yelled that he was GENERAL Forrest. Those two put together made resistance happen, but not with much vigor.

So maybe it was one of those. Like Monty Python. The building only stands as long as you think it does.

 

[mofederal]

In Gray Ghosts of the Confederacy, Price's adjutant general calls Quantrill a "Colonel" later on Page 134-135 is a letter from Captain Edmund P. Turner AAG of the Trans-Mississippi where he calls Quantrill a Captain. The Partisan Ranger Act of April 11, 1862 allowed Davis to commission officers with the authority to form bands of Partisan Rangers. Also called the Partisan Ranger Act. At Different times Confederate officers called Quantrill a Captain in their orders to him. In Donald Hale's book We Rode With Quantrill on page 79 he writes of documents in the National Archives which states that Quantrill was a Captain of Confederate (Cavalry) Scouts. They have pay vouchers to Quantrill establishing him as a Captain of Confederate Cavalry or Scouts. On the same page it says Quantrill was given a commission as a Captain by Colonel Gideon W. Thompson on August 14, 14, 1862 on the Farm of Morgan Walker near Blue Spring, Mo. He was a commissioned officer in the Confederate Army. When he went to Richmond in the later part of 1862-63, he may have been authorized as a Colonel.

 

[Patrick H]

In Gray Ghosts of the Confederacy, Price's adjutant general calls Quantrill a "Colonel" later on Page 134-135 is a letter from Captain Edmund P. Turner AAG of the Trans-Mississippi where he calls Quantrill a Captain. The Partisan Ranger Act of April 11, 1862 allowed Davis to commission officers with the authority to form bands of Partisan Rangers. Also called the Partisan Ranger Act. At Different times Confederate officers called Quantrill a Captain in their orders to him. In Donald Hale's book We Rode With Quantrill on page 79 he writes of documents in the National Archives which states that Quantrill was a Captain of Confederate (Cavalry) Scouts. They have pay vouchers to Quantrill establishing him as a Captain of Confederate Cavalry or Scouts. On the same page it says Quantrill was given a commission as a Captain by Colonel Gideon W. Thompson on August 14, 14, 1862 on the Farm of Morgan Walker near Blue Spring, Mo. He was a commissioned officer in the Confederate Army. When he went to Richmond in the later part of 1862-63, he may have been authorized as a Colonel.

He could have been a regularly commissioned officer or a field commissioned officer--or even an elected officer. Clearly, some saw him as a colonel. (He saw himself that way). Thus, the portrait of him in a colonel's insignia. Lots of people addressed him by lots of titles (some not so polite).

I am NOT arguing with you.

Price was willing to work with him and some of Quantrill's men did good service for Price as scouts. Col. Upton Hays was willing to work with him, to good effect. There were many others in the Confederate officer corps who didn't recognize Quantrill and wanted nothing to do with him. I have said many times that he wasn't well understood in his own life. How in the world can we understand him now?

 

[mofederal]

I know what you are saying, I wanted to show he was some sort of commissioned officer. On page 47 of Hale's book there is a picture of a Quantrill flag picked up in Olathe, Kansas on September 7, 1862. I am sure Quantrill was not liked by many, and I would suspect there were those who kept their distance. He was a very complex person, who pretty much defies any real understanding. He was who he was whether he was liked or disliked, loved or hated.

 

[Boonslick]

He was who he was whether he was liked or disliked, loved or hated

Kate's Song

(Cathy Barton)

Oh yes, I well recall the time, all in my thirteenth year,
When he first rode up unto our farm to bend my papa's ear.
And although I cannot now recall many words the stranger said,
It was clear his thoughts weren't long on pa, they were on pa's girl instead.

His blue eyes made you think of ice and a chilling winter's day;
And they followed me so closely, watching every move I made.
My papa told me eyes were like a window to the soul;
But not so with this handsome man who kept the shutters closed.

And don't you think I know full well how scarlet are those hands,
Those hands that hold me close at night, and gun down scores of men?
And those blue eyes that are watching me in the flickering candlelight,
Are the eyes that gaze right down at death and rob men's sleep at night.

But this man they call a devil is my husband and my friend,
And I would lie by Will Quantrill though he kill a thousand men.

Well, he came to see me more and more and together we would ride,
Across the hills, through tangled woods and the endless countryside.
Sometimes we'd race till all I knew were pounding hooves and wind,
And it made him smile to see me ride my horse just like a man.

So the home we made together was wherever we could ride,
And bed was floors and hard, cold ground wherever we could hide.
And I came to know my lover was a leader amongst men.
His command was large and growing, and they all looked up to him.

And sometimes when I lay with him I'd look into his face,
And he'd look so calm and peaceful there with all the hate erased.
He wasn't hearing dying groans or hearing women cry.
He wasn't seeing bloody ground or the flames that licked the sky.
He'd sleep in peace and it was me who'd wonder how and why.

Well, he's gone off to Kentucky now and left me here alone,
But he said, "Don't worry, Kate, you know I'll soon be coming home."
And it seems like only yesterday I heard Will Quantrill cry,
As he sang out, "Katie, " dear Katie, will you be my own dear bride?"
He sang out, "Katie, Oh dear Katie, will you ride by Quantrill's side?"

 

[SWMODave]

This is probably not helpful to the question of how he got to be a colonel but its an earlier date ..... he referred to him as a colonel and was obviously not his biggest fan.

October 22, 1863, Bonham, Tex.,
Brigadier General Henry E. McCullogh to Captain Edmund P. Turner

HEADQUARTERS NORTHERN SUB-DISTRICT,
Bonham, Tex., October 22, 1863.

Capt. EDMUND P. TURNER,
Assistant Adjutant-General:

CAPTAIN: A good many of Colonel Quantrill's command have come into this sub-district, and it is said that he is now within it. He has not reported here, and I do not know what his military status is. I do not know as much about his mode of warfare as others seem to know; but, from all I can learn, it is but little, if at all, removed from that of the wildest savage; so much so, that I do not for a moment believe that our Government can sanction it in one of her officers. Hence, it seems to me if he be an officer of our army, his conduct should be officially noticed, and if he be not an officer of our army, his acts should be disavowed by our Government, and, as far as practicable, he be made to understand that we would greatly prefer his remaining away from our army or its vicinity.

I appreciate his services, and am anxious to have them; but certainly we cannot, as a Christian people, sanction a savage, inhuman warfare, in which men are to be shot down like dogs, after throwing down their arms and holding up their hands supplicating for mercy.

This is a matter to which I wish to call the serious attention of our commanding generals, and with regard to which I desire their advice and instructions as early as practicable.

Most respectfully, your obedient servant,

HENRY E. McCULLOCH,

Brigadier-General, Commanding Northern Sub-District.

 

[Patrick H]

Kate's Song

(Cathy Barton)

Oh yes, I well recall the time, all in my thirteenth year,
When he first rode up unto our farm to bend my papa's ear.
And although I cannot now recall many words the stranger said,
It was clear his thoughts weren't long on pa, they were on pa's girl instead.

His blue eyes made you think of ice and a chilling winter's day;
And they followed me so closely, watching every move I made.
My papa told me eyes were like a window to the soul;
But not so with this handsome man who kept the shutters closed.

And don't you think I know full well how scarlet are those hands,
Those hands that hold me close at night, and gun down scores of men?
And those blue eyes that are watching me in the flickering candlelight,
Are the eyes that gaze right down at death and rob men's sleep at night.

But this man they call a devil is my husband and my friend,
And I would lie by Will Quantrill though he kill a thousand men.

Well, he came to see me more and more and together we would ride,
Across the hills, through tangled woods and the endless countryside.
Sometimes we'd race till all I knew were pounding hooves and wind,
And it made him smile to see me ride my horse just like a man.

So the home we made together was wherever we could ride,
And bed was floors and hard, cold ground wherever we could hide.
And I came to know my lover was a leader amongst men.
His command was large and growing, and they all looked up to him.

And sometimes when I lay with him I'd look into his face,
And he'd look so calm and peaceful there with all the hate erased.
He wasn't hearing dying groans or hearing women cry.
He wasn't seeing bloody ground or the flames that licked the sky.
He'd sleep in peace and it was me who'd wonder how and why.

Well, he's gone off to Kentucky now and left me here alone,
But he said, "Don't worry, Kate, you know I'll soon be coming home."
And it seems like only yesterday I heard Will Quantrill cry,
As he sang out, "Katie, " dear Katie, will you be my own dear bride?"
He sang out, "Katie, Oh dear Katie, will you ride by Quantrill's side?"

We can always count on our friend @Boonslick to come up with something like this.

Please soak in these lyrics, my friends. @Boonslick is quoting a contemporary folklorist of national reputation. In her song,
Cathy Barton Para is definitely showing us the story from the perspective of the young girl who gave her heart to Quantrill. This will not be accepted by those who have judged Quantrill a demon, and who don't want to be confused by other opinions. But this will show you all that a man of that violent era can have a heart, and that heart can (and did) win the love of a young girl.

Now...brace yourselves for pejorative comments about Kate. She might have earned some, and those comments are sure to follow.

In the meantime, thank you, @Boonslick, for posting these lyrics!

 

[Patrick H]

This is probably not helpful to the question of how he got to be a colonel but its an earlier date ..... he referred to him as a colonel and was obviously not his biggest fan.

October 22, 1863, Bonham, Tex.,
Brigadier General Henry E. McCullogh to Captain Edmund P. Turner

HEADQUARTERS NORTHERN SUB-DISTRICT,
Bonham, Tex., October 22, 1863.

Capt. EDMUND P. TURNER,
Assistant Adjutant-General:

CAPTAIN: A good many of Colonel Quantrill's command have come into this sub-district, and it is said that he is now within it. He has not reported here, and I do not know what his military status is. I do not know as much about his mode of warfare as others seem to know; but, from all I can learn, it is but little, if at all, removed from that of the wildest savage; so much so, that I do not for a moment believe that our Government can sanction it in one of her officers. Hence, it seems to me if he be an officer of our army, his conduct should be officially noticed, and if he be not an officer of our army, his acts should be disavowed by our Government, and, as far as practicable, he be made to understand that we would greatly prefer his remaining away from our army or its vicinity.

I appreciate his services, and am anxious to have them; but certainly we cannot, as a Christian people, sanction a savage, inhuman warfare, in which men are to be shot down like dogs, after throwing down their arms and holding up their hands supplicating for mercy.

This is a matter to which I wish to call the serious attention of our commanding generals, and with regard to which I desire their advice and instructions as early as practicable.

Most respectfully, your obedient servant,

HENRY E. McCULLOCH,

Brigadier-General, Commanding Northern Sub-District.

I think this is very pertinent input to the thread. Quantrill is tagged in so many ways by so many people, and this is proof of Gen. McCulloch's opinion at that date in time. Thanks for posting this.

 

[archieclement]

I think this is very pertinent input to the thread. Quantrill is tagged in so many ways by so many people, and this is proof of Gen. McCulloch's opinion at that date in time. Thanks for posting this.

agree at some point whether he was ever legally commissioned a colonel is irrelevant, if everyone amongst his superiors was recognizing and acknowledging him as such

 

[1NCCAV]

The film Ride With The Devil has been mentioned. I took the the character Black John to be a composite of Quantrill and Anderson.

 

[archieclement]

The film Ride With The Devil has been mentioned. I took the the character Black John to be a composite of Quantrill and Anderson.

They should make a sequel but focus on Pitt more

 

[SWMODave]

Is there a record of Kate ever applying for a Confederate pension?

 

[1NCCAV]

They should make a sequel but focus on Pitt more

I don't think he survived.

But if he did he probably joined the James Younger Gang and shot a banker in Northfield.