Captain William C. Quantrill, CSA

Buckeye Bill

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Today is the 151st anniversary of the Lawrence Massacre of 1863 conducted by Captain William C. Quantrill, CSA.

Question : Was this man a faithful soldier or a bloody murderer?

* Virginia contains the most American Civil War conflicts. Tennessee is second on the list. Missouri is third.....
 
Today is the 151st anniversary of the Lawrence Massacre of 1863 conducted by Captain William C. Quantrill, CSA.

Question : Was this man a faithful soldier or a bloody murderer?

* Virginia contains the most American Civil War conflicts. Tennessee is second on the list. Missouri is third.....
If the US was at war today and an enemy force captured your son who was over 13 years old and shot and killed him knowing he is unarmed and at point blank range are they brave soldiers? That's what happened at Lawrence Kn.
Leftyhunter
 
I used to believe he was a bloodthirsty murderer and nothing more. However, after reading hundreds of pages about him by authors who demonize him, some who idolize him and some who attempt to be objective about him, my views have changed a bit.

It seems to me there was a very peculiar duality about him, insofar as he was capable of cold blooded deeds and of kind deeds. Even Connelly, the Kansas historian who mostly demonizes Quantrill, recognizes this.

Quantrill had a particularly chivalrous attitude toward women and would not tolerate their mistreatment. I believe it was McCorckle who said it was well known that the penalty for any of his men mistreating a woman would be summary execution by Quantrill himself.

Quantrill actually protected a number of people at Lawrence, who agreed to surrender to him if they would not be shot. These he placed under his personal protection at one hotel while other hotels were being burned. On the other hand, he kidnapped a number of people to use as guides--one at a time--on his approach to Lawrence because he was advancing on the town from an unfamiliar direction and through a series of tangled creeks and woods during the night. Seven or eight of these guides were shot, one at a time, as they got to the limits of the countryside they knew, and he would ride up to a farmhouse and kidnap another.

In another instance, George Todd recognized a farmer with whom he had a grudge. He was going to shoot the man, but Quantrill stopped him for fear the shot might be heard in Lawrence and give warning about their approach. But he had no qualms about allowing Todd to beat the man's brains out with the butt of a musket.

Another time, Quantrill had a union lieutenant as a hostage. He was hoping to trade this man for one of his own men who was in custody in a union occupied town. The lieutenant struck a deal with Quantrill. He would enter the town and personally speak to the senior officer there about the trade. If he was unsuccessful, he gave his word of honor to return to Quantrill to face his own execution. Quantrill's man was hung. True to his word, the union officer returned and surrendered to Quantrill, stating that he had tried his best. Quantrill told his men that it would not be right to execute a man as honest and brave as this, and he let the lieutenant go free.

There's no denying that Quantrill rode to Lawrence with a death list of "most wanted" people. But it was his men who did the wanton sacking and killing. And, further, it was not ALL of his men. Several were so disgusted that they refused to participate. William Gregg left him after Lawrence, as did a number of others.

I believe Quantrill's command fell apart in the winter of 1863-64 because Todd and Anderson thought he was too soft on yankees. In any event, he spent a good part of the 1864 bushwhacking season more or less "retired" in Howard County, Missouri while Anderson and Todd doubled up on their ruthlessness.

It was during that same year that one of Quantrill's former men spotted a fine horse that he wanted to steal from a Howard County widow. He told the widow's slave to bring him the horse. Instead, the slave informed the widow and she had him take the horse to town and sell it before it could be stolen. The bushwhacker later accosted and murdered the slave for "double crossing" him. Word of this got to Quantrill, who met the offending bushwhacker near Clark's Chapel and executed him on the spot.

Quantrill was capable of demonic actions, but was far too complicated a man to simply be written off as a demon. He was never very well understood in life. It is impossible to fully understand him nearly 150 years after his death.

In my view, Anderson and Clements are better candidates for demonization.
 
Patrick H said:
There's no denying that Quantrill rode to Lawrence with a death list of "most wanted" people. But it was his men who did the wanton sacking and killing. And, further, it was not ALL of his men. Several were so disgusted that they refused to participate. William Gregg left him after Lawrence, as did a number of others.

His men as opposed to what? I'm not familiar enough with what went on in this area of the war to give a vote, I'm just trying to make sense of what others have to say.
 
I used to believe he was a bloodthirsty murderer and nothing more. However, after reading hundreds of pages about him by authors who demonize him, some who idolize him and some who attempt to be objective about him, my views have changed a bit.

It seems to me there was a very peculiar duality about him, insofar as he was capable of cold blooded deeds and of kind deeds. Even Connelly, the Kansas historian who mostly demonizes Quantrill, recognizes this.

Quantrill had a particularly chivalrous attitude toward women and would not tolerate their mistreatment. I believe it was McCorckle who said it was well known that the penalty for any of his men mistreating a woman would be summary execution by Quantrill himself.

Quantrill actually protected a number of people at Lawrence, who agreed to surrender to him if they would not be shot. These he placed under his personal protection at one hotel while other hotels were being burned. On the other hand, he kidnapped a number of people to use as guides--one at a time--on his approach to Lawrence because he was advancing on the town from an unfamiliar direction and through a series of tangled creeks and woods during the night. Seven or eight of these guides were shot, one at a time, as they got to the limits of the countryside they knew, and he would ride up to a farmhouse and kidnap another.

In another instance, George Todd recognized a farmer with whom he had a grudge. He was going to shoot the man, but Quantrill stopped him for fear the shot might be heard in Lawrence and give warning about their approach. But he had no qualms about allowing Todd to beat the man's brains out with the butt of a musket.

Another time, Quantrill had a union lieutenant as a hostage. He was hoping to trade this man for one of his own men who was in custody in a union occupied town. The lieutenant struck a deal with Quantrill. He would enter the town and personally speak to the senior officer there about the trade. If he was unsuccessful, he gave his word of honor to return to Quantrill to face his own execution. Quantrill's man was hung. True to his word, the union officer returned and surrendered to Quantrill, stating that he had tried his best. Quantrill told his men that it would not be right to execute a man as honest and brave as this, and he let the lieutenant go free.

There's no denying that Quantrill rode to Lawrence with a death list of "most wanted" people. But it was his men who did the wanton sacking and killing. And, further, it was not ALL of his men. Several were so disgusted that they refused to participate. William Gregg left him after Lawrence, as did a number of others.

I believe Quantrill's command fell apart in the winter of 1863-64 because Todd and Anderson thought he was too soft on yankees. In any event, he spent a good part of the 1864 bushwhacking season more or less "retired" in Howard County, Missouri while Anderson and Todd doubled up on their ruthlessness.

It was during that same year that one of Quantrill's former men spotted a fine horse that he wanted to steal from a Howard County widow. He told the widow's slave to bring him the horse. Instead, the slave informed the widow and she had him take the horse to town and sell it before it could be stolen. The bushwhacker later accosted and murdered the slave for "double crossing" him. Word of this got to Quantrill, who met the offending bushwhacker near Clark's Chapel and executed him on the spot.

Quantrill was capable of demonic actions, but was far too complicated a man to simply be written off as a demon. He was never very well understood in life. It is impossible to fully understand him nearly 150 years after his death.

In my view, Anderson and Clements are better candidates for demonization.

The other side had their share of demons which is often overlooked anytime Quantrill is mentioned. I think of Quantrill and his crew as a product of their environment.
 
Like in the movie Outlaw Josey Wales - Josey's sitting on the graves of his wife and son and up rides Bloody Bill. Want revenge? Yep. Come on... Sometimes I think that's exactly what happened in real life! Quantrill hatched Jesse James along with Archie Clement and Bill Anderson but they were considerably worse after they left his command. I do think Quantrill was wobbly in the upper story, but there was something about the situation in that area that seemed to bring out the loose screws in otherwise maintainable people. John Brown, for instance. Not insane, not sane either.
 
Bloody Bill Anderson seems to have been your basic psychopath, whose love of killing people was maybe enhanced by being with Quantrill. But probably only in that riding with Quantrill left him more unfettered in his ability to kill others. I used to work with kids who'd been incarcerated and they were pretty tough. But they were all afraid of the one kid who was about 18 and a definite psychopath. They, the tough kids, believed that he was incredibly dangerous and should be held in permanent pre-emptive custody.

The adults who dealt with him also thought he was about the most dangerous individual they'd seen--and they'd dealt with adult criminals in maximum security.

According to what I've read, it's known that Bloody Bill had killed a Kaw Indian before he hooked up with Quantrill. My guess would be that there were other killings by Bill Anderson that were undiscovered.

Quantrill and his gang were common criminals--there's just no way to dress it up. These weren't guerrillas, they were a gang of criminals fighting for nothing more than their own need to be lawless. Some of the gangs may have been men who got caught up in the blood feuds that became part of Missouri-Kansas history and left the gang, but Anderson and Quantrill were just bad guys.
 
Quantrill and his gang were common criminals--there's just no way to dress it up. These weren't guerrillas, they were a gang of criminals fighting for nothing more than their own need to be lawless. Some of the gangs may have been men who got caught up in the blood feuds that became part of Missouri-Kansas history and left the gang, but Anderson and Quantrill were just bad guys.

Do you have a source for this, not Anderson but the other members? Quantrill, was a harmless school teacher before his involvement.
 
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According to what I've read, it's known that Bloody Bill had killed a Kaw Indian before he hooked up with Quantrill. My guess would be that there were other killings by Bill Anderson that were undiscovered.

Pretty common to kill indians back in the day. Anderson's father was killed by a Union-loyalist judge, his sister was killed by Union troops right? That may have been the real reason to **** him off. It would me.
 
They were all molded by their environment. Some of them, like Quantrill and Anderson, already had dubious pasts. But many were sons of highly respected and prosperous people before the war. Cole Younger's father was the mayor of Harrisonville. He was hung by militia. Jesse James's step father (a minister) was tortured. Jesse was tortured. Quantrill and his brother were robbed in Kansas and his brother was killed. Quantrill was wounded. John McCorckle had joined the state guard (pro southern) but became sick and was captured early in the war. When released, he walked to his uncle's farm and resumed a normal civilian life, fully intending to abide by his loyalty oath. Then he was forced to drive the mail wagon into Independence a few times a week (because of guerrilla attacks), walking home each time. Next, he was told he had about five days to enlist in the pro-northern militia or he would be shot. He refused to do that, and went to the bush. He seems to have remained a good an honorable soldier even after one of his sisters was killed in the K.C. prison collapse. Many of these guys saw their fathers shot and/or their homes burned and their possessions stolen before they went to the bush. And those who suffered no personal loss all knew people who had been burned out or otherwise abused. They became guerrilla fighters because they wanted to stay home and protect their home counties. Eventually, repeated wrongs committed by both sides drove a lot of these boys into an all-out war of revenge. And the company drew those misfits who were just looking for an opportunity to be in a feared gang.

When they went to Lawrence, a lot of them went for a "fair fight", as depicted in RIDE WITH THE DEVIL. But others went to kill any suspected Jayhawker or Redleg they could find. Thus, some went on a killing spree (any male old enough to carry a gun) and others grew disgusted. Quantrill's duality shows up there, because he protected some citizens while failing to control the more bloodthirsty members of his company. He stood by and watched, mostly. I'm not saying this absolved him of complicity and guilt. He planned the raid. And, militarily, he apparently planned it pretty well. But he allowed it to turn into a massacre.
 
There's another story where Bill Anderson and his brother, Jim, had been robbing both northern and southern citizens in Missouri. Quantrill sent some of his men who then took the Anderson's horses and warned them that they'd be shot if they continued harassing those who sided with the Confederacy. Concerning the Indian incident, I believe that was Ellis Anderson who killed the man. This brother was the second born between Bill, the eldest, and Jim. The story goes he fled to Iowa after the killing and was never heard from again. I read in one of Borderruffian's posts that he knew someone who claimed to be a descendant of Ellis Anderson but I can't locate it at the moment.

If Quantrill and Anderson were truly just vicious psychopaths and nothing more I don't think there would be such a fascination with them to this day. (I personally don't believe it.) I have read that on occasion there still are flowers left on Bill Anderson's grave.

There is a man who fits the description of ruthless killer and nothing more: Alf Bolin. Has anyone here even heard of him?
 
If Quantrill and Anderson were truly just vicious psychopaths and nothing more I don't think there would be such a fascination with them to this day. (I personally don't believe it.) I have read that on occasion there still are flowers left on Bill Anderson's grave.

I would agree, those that think they were psychopaths don't consider the other side as such. The one sided dogma continues like the energizer bunny.
 

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