Captain William C. Quantrill, CSA

Need some help locating a source. I found it and lost it a few days ago. Sometime in either late 61 or 62, the commanding Union officer in Missouri put out a (I believe) a General Order giving no quarter to guerilla fighters. Immediately after this, there was a guerilla leader in central Missouri that contacted a local union officer (I believe either Schofield or Sturgis) asking for clarification. Ring a bell with anyone and if so, can you point me to the order or decree or ??? TIA

Old age sucks sometimes!
 
Need some help locating a source. I found it and lost it a few days ago. Sometime in either late 61 or 62, the commanding Union officer in Missouri put out a (I believe) a General Order giving no quarter to guerilla fighters. Immediately after this, there was a guerilla leader in central Missouri that contacted a local union officer (I believe either Schofield or Sturgis) asking for clarification. Ring a bell with anyone and if so, can you point me to the order or decree or ??? TIA

Old age sucks sometimes!
Off hand no idea but timeline probably march 62 or not long after, that's when Halleck did general order 2, turning the conflict to no quarter

Also may be a CSA recruiter that bout when they started coming up too
 
I forget where it was, on a raid in middle Tennessee I think, Forrest was just a colonel. The boys in blue had got a bunch of stuff, wagons, barrels, ya know a hastily thrown together thin so they would get their tukus shot off. I'm not sure who had the upper hand, the garrison. When they asked who was in there it was a union colonel. So it was a standoff.

Forrest rose in the saddle and yelled that he was GENERAL Forrest. Those two put together made resistance happen, but not with much vigor.

So maybe it was one of those. Like Monty Python. The building only stands as long as you think it does.

Think that was the incident where Forrest made a near-death mistake - still kind of green, I reckon! He thought they'd put up a white flag and so put up one of his own and followed it to see what they wanted. He came within firing range and a Union officer inside the garrison yelled, "General, go back! That is a signal flag!" Forrest waved his hat to him and made a quick turn-around. Forrest was a general after Shiloh, for his action at Fallen Timbers.

I've never been able to figure out Quantrill's real status with the Confederate army - perhaps it comes down to what he thought he was. Henry McCulloch, though, was not happy with partisans or guerrillas - he was known to be a strict disciplinarian and wanted troops he could control. Quantrill, whatever his position, was not in that category.

Speaking of movies, I've always thought Clint Eastwood's Josey Wales was a composite of these guerrillas and partisans, with a heavy nod in Forrest's direction. Who knows - he could have been such a man in similar circumstances.
 
General John Schofield as the new commander of the Union Department of Missouri, wasted no time in deciding his first course of action. After reporting to General Halleck, he issued an order to outlaw the Confederate Partisans in his department, who he felt were driving his department deeper into insurrection. On May 29, 1862, General Order 18 By General John Schofield on page 81 of Gray Ghosts of the Confederacy by Brownlee, give a brief of the order. It Stated :

"The time has passed when Insurrection and rebellion in Missouri can cloak itself under the guise of honorable warfare."

"The upmost vigilance and energy are enjoined upon all of the troops of the State in hunting down and destroying these robbers and assassins. When caught in arms, engaged in their unlawful warfare, they will be shot down on the spot." extert from O.R., Series 1 Vol. XIII, 402-403.

This is the "extermination policy" on Confederate Guerrillas or partisans as pronounced by Generals Halleck and Schofield. This was quickly passed down to the subordinates in the subdistricts of Missouri. Col. E.B. Brown in the Central District ordered his men to execute guerrillas on the spot. The same type of orders were given in every District.
 
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archie 61.jpg
I don't think he survived.

But if he did he probably joined the James Younger Gang and shot a banker in Northfield.
Our friend archieclement knows that Pitt's character didn't survive, because Pitt's character was based on the real life Archie Clements. Archie survived the war for a short time. He led Anderson's band of guerrillas after Anderson's death. Thus, he managed to influence the very young Jesse James. Little Archie didn't surrender with Dave Poole and some of the other boys. He stayed out in the bush. One day he rode into Lexington and went into a bar to get a drink. Three soldiers there accosted him and egged him into a fight. Archie fought his way out of the bar and was galloping down a side street when he was shot out of the saddle by riflemen in the court house. He was partially paralyzed. He was dispatched while trying to cock a revolver with his teeth. He is buried just off present Highway 24 near Napoleon, Missouri--somewhat apart from the more respected people in the little cemetery.
 
I know what you are saying, I wanted to show he was some sort of commissioned officer. On page 47 of Hale's book there is a picture of a Quantrill flag picked up in Olathe, Kansas on September 7, 1862. I am sure Quantrill was not liked by many, and I would suspect there were those who kept their distance. He was a very complex person, who pretty much defies any real understanding. He was who he was whether he was liked or disliked, loved or hated.

Which flag was it? I have such muddled stories on that flag. One lapses over into Anderson's flag.
 
I wish I could post a picture of it. I guess I could try with my phone. I don't know it would work any other way. The book is We Rode With Quantrill by Donald R. Hale. It has red white red bara, and has a blue field, and it looks like a broken cup or bottle. on it's side. It is on page 47. I will see what I can do tomorrow with it. this is the best I can do:

https://www.kshs.org/kansapedia/quantrill-s-flag/10154

Another view of it, it looks lighter.

https://www.kshs.org/kansapedia/quantrill-s-flag/10154
 
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Our friend archieclement knows that Pitt's character didn't survive, because Pitt's character was based on the real life Archie Clements. Archie survived the war for a short time. He led Anderson's band of guerrillas after Anderson's death. Thus, he managed to influence the very young Jesse James. Little Archie didn't surrender with Dave Poole and some of the other boys. He stayed out in the bush. One day he rode into Lexington and went into a bar to get a drink. Three soldiers there accosted him and egged him into a fight. Archie fought his way out of the bar and was galloping down a side street when he was shot out of the saddle by riflemen in the court house. He was partially paralyzed. He was dispatched while trying to cock a revolver with his teeth. He is buried just off present Highway 24 near Napoleon, Missouri--somewhat apart from the more respected people in the little cemetery.

Not sure i'd say any were based on any real life, some certainly had some similiarities, Archie was well known as always smiling and a jokester, probally why he hung out with Dave Poole, he was also known as a jokester too, However in the movie Pitt is portrayed as more dour.

Dutchy doesn't seem based on any I know of, and in many ways is the opposite of the majority, seemed a very poor choice to base main character on if going for historical accuracy

Curious as a sidenote, have any of you who live closer Lexington, ever seen the roster he signed the day he died, it would answer something I've wondered about the accounts of him.
 
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I wish I could post a picture of it. I guess I could try with my phone. I don't know it would work any other way. The book is We Rode With Quantrill by Donald R. Hale. It has red white red bara, and has a blue field, and it looks like a broken cup or bottle. on it's side. It is on page 47. I will see what I can do tomorrow with it. this is the best I can do:

https://www.kshs.org/kansapedia/quantrill-s-flag/10154

Another view of it, it looks lighter.

https://www.kshs.org/kansapedia/quantrill-s-flag/10154
I've seen this image before. The object in the field is a hand. I have no idea of the significance. Also, father down in the article is a picture of Quantrill in a crudely painted colonel's coat. There has been discussion about whether he was ever commissioned. I said I had my doubts, but I referenced this picture of him.
 
General John Schofield as the new commander of the Union Department of Missouri, wasted no time in deciding his first course of action.

Thank you mofederal. Order 2M actually predated this one and was the one issued by Halleck and Schofield inquired on. But in looking for this one I found one that even predated it. This might be better for the guerilla threads, but I am starting to see the point with those who believe by 'raising the black flag' on the enemy element, you invite more of that which you are trying to stop. I have never been to interested in the guerilla aspect to Missouri, but since many of the members on this site seem to believe that is all the war in Missouri was - I figure I better start boning up on it. Here is another one from April 62 by another Wilson's Creek veteran - Totten. And Totten seems to say to shoot anybody and everybody - friends or enemies - anyone armed and violating the law.


GENERAL ORDERS. HDQRS. DIST. OF CENTRAL MISSOURI, No. 17.

Jefferson City, MO., April 22, 1862.

1. It is with feelings of unfeigned horror at the hellish crimes perpetrated and a profound loathing, abhorrence and disgust for the fiendish outlaws who committed them that the brigadier general commanding the District of Central Missouri once more calls the attention of the U. S. troops both volunteer and Missouri State Militia under his command to the necessity of increased and constant vigilance tempered with caution and prudence as well as justice and protection toward the innocent, in order that these great, growing and terrible outrages of every sort may be put as end to and the outlaws infesting the district exterminated.

Reports of murders, robberies and indeed of every crime known as felony and less criminal offenses reach these headquarters from every part of the district so that it has become dangerous for peaceful, law-abiding citizens and especially good Union citizens to pursue their legitimate vocation without molestation and imminent danger. The country is infested with bands of murderers, robbers and other outlaws of every shade of turpitude known to the criminal calendar, and in some instances (as recent evidence too plainly proves) these wretches are to act under and by authority of this United States. These base anal bloodthirsty beasts in human form have by their deeds, their boasts and their threats placed themselves beyond the pale of law and must be dealt with accordingly. As the innocent victims of these miscreants are made to suffer without cause and without trial or hearing of any sort (save their cries for mercy uttered in the agonies of terror and death which pass unheeded) so must their brutal, lawless and vandal tormentors be dealt with and no mercy shown them. Reasoning with outlaws is of no avail. The law and its faithful officers are set at defiance by these armed and ruthless agents of anarchy and hence they must be subjected to their own code and punished without mercy upon the spot when found enacting or banded together for the enactment of their foul deeds. It is therefore ordered for the observance of all concerned:

II. That hereafter whenever and wherever bawls of guerrillas, jayhawkers, marauders, murderers, &e.. are found in arms in open opposition to the laws and legitimate authorities of the United States and the State of Missouri the miscreants of which they are composed are to be shot down by the military authorities when commanded by commissioned officers upon the spot where caught perpetrating their foul acts. And at all times and in all places when our troops no matter by whom commanded are forcibly opposed by outlaws these latter are to be exterminated at all hazards.

III. That all persons who have or shall in the future knowingly harbor or in any manner encourage guerrilla, jayhawkers, robbers, murderers or other outlaws in their nefarious deeds will be arrested and kept in close confinement until tried by a military commission or other court as may be deemed expedient at the time.

IV. That where evidence cannot be produced to establish the guilt of parties accused of harboring and encouraging the lawless marauders, &e., above named but against whom there is strong circumstantial evidence and suspicion they are to be placed under heavy bonds with good and reliable security to keep the peace and for their future good conduct and also required to take the oath of allegiance; and when they refuse or neglect to do this they are to be confined and so held until released by proper authority.

By order of Brig. Gen. James Totten, commanding district:

LUCIEN J. BARNES,

Captain and Assistant Adjutant-General.
 
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Not sure i'd say any were based on any real life, some certainly had some similiarities,
Let's say loosely based. We have to remember that this movie is taken from a book that was a work of fiction. In the scene where Pitt confronts Dutchy in the cafe, one of the older bushwhackers says to Dutchy: "You'd best watch out. That b_____d will have your scalp." There's no doubt he's based on Archie. Daniel Holt is based mostly on John Noland, but he's a composite character. Black John is based on Anderson. Jack Bull's name was most likely chosen because it rings like Jim Crow Chiles. Quantrill is the only character in the movie who is portrayed by name.
 
Which roster? Is it located somewhere in Lexington?
the day he was killed he had showed up in Lexington to sign up for the Militis in accordance with a new militia law, I wonder if the militia roster still exists

Just curious, there should be 3 examples of archies written word, One the skeplt note, appears semi illiterate and he cant even spell his name, 2 after andersons death he writes and sends a note to Lexington demanding it to surrender, this one however appears literate.....both are possible, accounts say he was 15 when he joined, and latter one could have dictated, I just always wondered if the 3rd when he signs his name to the militia roll is literate or semi illiterate
 
the day he was killed he had showed up in Lexington to sign up for the Militis in accordance with a new militia law, I wonder if the militia roster still exists

Just curious, there should be 3 examples of archies written word, One the skeplt note, appears semi illiterate and he cant even spell his name, 2 after andersons death he writes and sends a note to Lexington demanding it to surrender, this one however appears literate.....both are possible, accounts say he was 15 when he joined, and latter one could have dictated, I just always wondered if the 3rd when he signs his name to the militia roll is literate or semi illiterate
I know someone in Lexington who will know if the roster is there. I'll ask him. I have a hunch that, if it still exists, it's in a state archive somewhere.
 
the day he was killed he had showed up in Lexington to sign up for the Militis in accordance with a new militia law, I wonder if the militia roster still exists

Just curious, there should be 3 examples of archies written word, One the skeplt note, appears semi illiterate and he cant even spell his name, ..............

I thought Wm. Anderson wrote the "scalped" note, but Anderson was supposedly a literate man.
 
I thought Wm. Anderson wrote the "scalped" note, but Anderson was supposedly a literate man.
Hi, Booner. There is some question about that note. Even if Archie was only semi-literate (and that's not certain), we would expect him to be able to spell his own name. Yet, it is usually attributed to him. I think it's quite possible that one of the other guys wrote the note, but we'll never know unless we could compare the handwriting. I think that's why our member @archieclement is hoping to find a signature on a roster.
 
Today is the 151st anniversary of the Lawrence Massacre of 1863 conducted by Captain William C. Quantrill, CSA.

Question : Was this man a faithful soldier or a bloody murderer?

I haven't read through this entire huge thread (and don't intend to!) so I don't know if anyone has pointed this out or not, but according to Jay Mongahan's Civil War on the Western Border 1856-65 Quantrill is stated as being involved in depredations well before the war during the Bleeding Kansas phase - and on the opposite side! He appears as a total opportunist, preying on whoever was available or ripe for the picking.
 
The thread has been a little bit sidetracked (and I've contributed to that) by discussion of Archie Clements. However, I promised to make an inquiry about the possibility of Archie's signature on a militia roster. There is no word yet on the existence of a militia roster, but the head of the Lafayette Historical Society reports this about Archie's last hours:

"Archie had indeed come to town to turn himself in however he changed his mind when he got here and instead went to the City hotel and got drunk. The City hotel was at 10th and Franklin Street. Archie's horse was in a livery Barn at 9th and Franklin Street. He went and retrieved his horse but meanwhile the Union Soldiers had organized themselves on the second floor of the Lafayette County Courthouse waiting for him to emerge from The Livery Barn. When he did they opened fire and he finally fell off of his horse in front a house a few blocks down Franklin Street. When they reached him they found 30 holes from bullets in him and his horse. Apparently the horse gave out before Archie did. Archie was horribly wounded in his normal shooting arm and was trying to cock his revolver with his teeth. His last words were 'I told you I'd never surrender'."

I take it from this that, even if a roster is found, we probably won't see Archie's signature on it.

In response to James N (just above), yes, I think we can safely assume Quantrill was an opportunist, just as you say.
 

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