Captain William C. Quantrill, CSA

[John S. Carter]

Josey left Anderson's band quickly but his temporary association with is what got him the outlaw tag. That and not surrendering...which turned out to be a good choice at the time!

How does one base historical facts on a movie that in the end is not real?

 

[diane]

How does one base historical facts on a movie that in the end is not real?

I'll have to diagram that sentence before I can answer you, John!

 

[Patrick H]

I was just thinking about the age of these characters as a factor in their actions - almost all of them were teenagers or not much over 25. Kids! I wonder about the strange and rather chilling remark Mosby made, when he was scolded by a reporter for having so many teenagers in his outfit. "Why, they make the very best soldiers," said Mosby. "They haven't got the sense to be afraid and they will do whatever I tell them."

I think you are quite right, Diane. Most of these guys were pretty young and I expect many of them lacked emotional maturity. Mix hot headedness with hormones and a desire for revenge, throw in six revolvers per man and you've got a volatile mix!

 

[Patrick H]

Curious as to which one? Was coauthored between Castel and Goodrich.

I was somewhat disappointed with it myself, other then a little early Anderson family history, it mainly just repeats other works on most of his guerrilla career. Kinda seemed a low effort book to make some income.........IMO

I think Boonslick was referring to the Larry Wood volume, but I'm not sure. Both were loaned to me by Booner today, so I'll soon have my own opinion of them.

 

[Boonslick]

I think Boonslick was referring to the Larry Wood volume, but I'm not sure. Both were loaned to me by Booner today, so I'll soon have my own opinion of them.

I was referring to the Castel and Goodrich book- Bloody Bill Anderson. Goodrich was the one that I had met.

 

[diane]

I think you are quite right, Diane. Most of these guys were pretty young and I expect many of them lacked emotional maturity. Mix hot headedness with hormones and a desire for revenge, throw in six revolvers per man and you've got a volatile mix!

And the cherry up top that sundae would be a charismatic older man for them to idolize... Trouble with a capital "T"!

 

[SWMODave]

Can any of you guys who study MO guerilla and EMM activity stop by https://civilwartalk.com/threads/great-x-3-grand-uncle-and-uestion.138217/ when you get a free moment, and see if there is any information you can offer? Thank you

 

[mofederal]

I know who Larry Wood as he has written a lot of books on Missouri in the ACW. I don't like Castel much, but I thought Goodrich was better than that. I liked his other works. Bloody Dawn wasn't bad, but he writes some short books. I guess I will have to work to find some of these books. no source of these books here. I will keep looking for them.

 

[John S. Carter]

I'll have to diagram that sentence before I can answer you, John!

Allow me to explain; a movie aka Josey Wells is a fictitious portal of an event based on a historical event . In the movie the director has control over how he may wish to show certain events according to either a script or scene. In history there is only the factual events that occur that the historian is not allowed to alter to suit their preference .It the difference between a novel and a history.To see a movie is just entertainment to read history is to gain insight.Certain historians have written history to depict an event for political or social reason,then later that same history is written by another historian with more insight than the previous work . One who is further away sometimes can see the interaction of events than who is to close to see all that causes these things. Quantrill was a man of his time and to try to compare him with today's standard or a movie character then it becomes entertainment or politcal .I hope that I have not confused you more.The real danger is that when on sees a movie based on a history some may actually believe that was the way it was.

 

[mofederal]

https://www.kshs.org/publicat/history/1999autumn_tibbetts.pdf

One has to remember the movie was based on the book, Gone To Texas, later called The Outlaw Josey Wales by Forrest Carter. He wrote a second book, The Vengeance Trail of Josey Wales. Oddly enough it was made into a movie also, but it starred another cast entirely. Ride With The Devil was based on a book called Woe to Live On by Daniel Woodrell. Woodrell also gave us the book and movie Winter's Bone, which sounds suspiciously like it was written about some nearby counties to close to where I live. So far except for Death Valley the others had Anderson/Quantrill characters.

 

[diane]

Allow me to explain; a movie aka Josey Wells is a fictitious portal of an event based on a historical event . In the movie the director has control over how he may wish to show certain events according to either a script or scene. In history there is only the factual events that occur that the historian is not allowed to alter to suit their preference .It the difference between a novel and a history.To see a movie is just entertainment to read history is to gain insight.Certain historians have written history to depict an event for political or social reason,then later that same history is written by another historian with more insight than the previous work . One who is further away sometimes can see the interaction of events than who is to close to see all that causes these things. Quantrill was a man of his time and to try to compare him with today's standard or a movie character then it becomes entertainment or politcal .I hope that I have not confused you more.The real danger is that when on sees a movie based on a history some may actually believe that was the way it was.

Ok.

 

[Booner]

Then theres a book called "The Wildwood Boys" ( I think) which is about Wm. Anderson. It's been so long since I've read it, but it's fiction based on Bill's life.

 

[mofederal]

I have read that book too. I like it, but it is different. I have a much older book about Quantrill and Anderson. I think it was called Quantrill's Raiders. I guess I should go to the University Library, not easy to find parking or using a wheel chair once I found a parking space. I used to live in the library. Now I dread trying to go to one.

 

[Patrick H]

Quantrill was a man of his time and to try to compare him with today's standard or a movie character then it becomes entertainment or politcal .

I've often said that he wasn't well understood in his time, so I doubt it's possible for us to fully understand him in our time. I think he and his boys are endlessly fascinating, though.

 

[diane]

I have read that book too. I like it, but it is different. I have a much older book about Quantrill and Anderson. I think it was called Quantrill's Raiders. I guess I should go to the University Library, not easy to find parking or using a wheel chair once I found a parking space. I used to live in the library. Now I dread trying to go to one.

Me, too! The library built an access ramp that has more twists than Lombard Street. Left, right, left, right...back and forth across the slight hill... Then the automatic door takes all night easing open and slams to like a rat trap when you're only half-way in. Elevators where you need ATV tires to get over the threshold or iced up accesses coming in from the parking lot - if you've found a disabled slot, which are rare as four leaf clovers. It's amazing the speed you can build up on that teeny tiny bit of a slope! Still...I'm sure thankful for the ADA or I'd never get out of the yard.

Sorry! I be talking Quantrill now...

 

[Borderruffian]

Allow me to explain; a movie aka Josey Wells is a fictitious portal of an event based on a historical event . In the movie the director has control over how he may wish to show certain events according to either a script or scene. In history there is only the factual events that occur that the historian is not allowed to alter to suit their preference .It the difference between a novel and a history.To see a movie is just entertainment to read history is to gain insight.Certain historians have written history to depict an event for political or social reason,then later that same history is written by another historian with more insight than the previous work . One who is further away sometimes can see the interaction of events than who is to close to see all that causes these things. Quantrill was a man of his time and to try to compare him with today's standard or a movie character then it becomes entertainment or politcal .I hope that I have not confused you more.The real danger is that when on sees a movie based on a history some may actually believe that was the way it was.

Well I think the people who posted in this thread all

 

[Patrick H]

I'm about 1/3rd through BLOODY BILL ANDERSON, THE SHORT, SAVAGE LIFE OF A CIVIL WAR GUERRILLA, by Castel and Goodrich. The chapter on Lawrence naturally covers a lot of information on Quantrill. We've had some discussion here about the age of the victims at Lawrence. The authors had this to say: "They spared women and children; men and teenage boys were shot down mercilessly." Albert Castel is a recognized authority on the Missouri guerrillas. There is no doubt what he thought of the actions at Lawrence, but he clearly separates children from teenage boys. Lots of soldiers (and lots of guerrillas) were teenagers in that era, so I don't find that too surprising. To me, the real outrage is that so many of the people were unarmed.

 

[John S. Carter]

I've often said that he wasn't well understood in his time, so I doubt it's possible for us to fully understand him in our time. I think he and his boys are endlessly fascinating, though.

Kind a like most of our fascination with most of the characters type who lived by their own rules, who went against the rules of the norm .Quantrill as with all who followed him or men like him some how have created a fantasy about themselves that even historians find rather charming/interesting.

 

[Patrick H]

Quantrill was a man who earned a reputation, but I don't think he was nearly as bad as Bill Anderson or George Todd. I don't believe Albert Castel thought so, either. I could be wrong about that last part. I am quite certain that William Gregg didn't think he was as bad as Anderson.

I hasten to add that I am not making apologies for Quantrill here. I am trying to keep his offenses in proper perspective to the other guys' offenses.

 

[archieclement]

Quantrill was a man who earned a reputation, but I don't think he was nearly as bad as Bill Anderson or George Todd. I don't believe Albert Castel thought so, either. I could be wrong about that last part. I am quite certain that William Gregg didn't think he was as bad as Anderson.

I hasten to add that I am not making apologies for Quantrill here. I am trying to keep his offenses in proper perspective to the other guys' offenses.

Personally I've never felt an affinity for Quantrill. Most the Missouri guerrillas I can understand their motives, but not his.......He starts out fighting for one side, then suddenly flips to the other, and in the end flees..........