Captain William C. Quantrill, CSA

[LtRusell]

Take this with grain of salt. I don't know if I buy it all, or at all, but my it's a fun read!

Harry Truman, 2nd Confederate President

http://www.rulen.com/partisan/truman.htm

 

[Patrick H]

Take this with grain of salt. I don't know if I buy it all, or at all, but my it's a fun read!

Harry Truman, 2nd Confederate President

http://www.rulen.com/partisan/truman.htm

Yes, it's a great read and yes it should be taken with a grain salt. I don't know that I'd call Harry a son of the south, but he was certainly a son of Missouri. Even before the incident in this story, he went to visit his grandmother one Sunday afternoon after his National Guard meeting. He walked in wearing his blue uniform and she reportedly fainted. This part is quite believable to me, considering she had been robbed and burned out. He was also asked once about the shooting of Jim Crow Chiles (his uncle by marriage) after the war. Harry's answer (and I am paraphrasing) was something like: "The cause of the dispute is a mystery and of course we don't know." I have always thought that was deliberately enigmatic. We must also remember that Harry's business partner and friend was Eddie Jacobson, a jew. Harry famously stood up to a bunch of Klansmen once and called down shame upon them. And he desegregated the U.S. Military. He wasn't perfect by any means, but he was far from being a racist. I think he'd gladly have defended his grandparents' farm against raiding jayhawkers if he'd had the chance. But I don't think he'd have fought to prolong slavery.

 

[Booner]

An open question----

If Q was a colonel, would that rank have had to been approved by the CSA congress and/or president?
or, could a General promote him without the need of approval by other parties?

 

[Patrick H]

An open question----

If Q was a colonel, would that rank have had to been approved by the CSA congress and/or president?
or, could a General promote him without the need of approval by other parties?

Now that's an excellent question and it's one I can't possibly answer.

 

[Patrick H]

Today is the 151st anniversary of the Lawrence Massacre of 1863 conducted by Captain William C. Quantrill, CSA.

Question : Was this man a faithful soldier or a bloody murderer?

* Virginia contains the most American Civil War conflicts. Tennessee is second on the list. Missouri is third.....

Coming back three years and a little more than a week after Bill's first post, I ask: Can he be both a faithful soldier and a bloody murderer? I think he can and I think he was, depending on the circumstances.

 

[archieclement]

The thread has been a little bit sidetracked (and I've contributed to that) by discussion of Archie Clements. However, I promised to make an inquiry about the possibility of Archie's signature on a militia roster. There is no word yet on the existence of a militia roster, but the head of the Lafayette Historical Society reports this about Archie's last hours:

"Archie had indeed come to town to turn himself in however he changed his mind when he got here and instead went to the City hotel and got drunk. The City hotel was at 10th and Franklin Street. Archie's horse was in a livery Barn at 9th and Franklin Street. He went and retrieved his horse but meanwhile the Union Soldiers had organized themselves on the second floor of the Lafayette County Courthouse waiting for him to emerge from The Livery Barn. When he did they opened fire and he finally fell off of his horse in front a house a few blocks down Franklin Street. When they reached him they found 30 holes from bullets in him and his horse. Apparently the horse gave out before Archie did. Archie was horribly wounded in his normal shooting arm and was trying to cock his revolver with his teeth. His last words were 'I told you I'd never surrender'."

I take it from this that, even if a roster is found, we probably won't see Archie's signature on it.

In response to James N (just above), yes, I think we can safely assume Quantrill was an opportunist, just as you say.

Most published accounts differ they say he rode in with a large group and did enroll, then was advised to leave which they did, but then Archie and one other (never have seen the other named) returned and went to the city hotel

 

[Buckeye Bill]

Coming back three years and a little more than a week after Bill's first post, I ask: Can he be both a faithful soldier and a bloody murderer? I think he can and I think he was, depending on the circumstances.

Very plausible, Patrick!

 

[Patrick H]

Most published accounts differ they say he rode in with a large group and did enroll, then was advised to leave which they did, but then Archie and one other (never have seen the other named) returned and went to the city hotel

I don't agree with the "most published accounts" part of you post, Archie. This is the first I've ever heard of it and I've been on this trail a very long time. Now.....I could be wrong, but you're going to have to convince me.

 

[archieclement]

I don't agree with the "most published accounts" part of you post, Archie. This is the first I've ever heard of it and I've been on this trail a very long time. Now.....I could be wrong, but you're going to have to convince me.

Its the account gave in gray ghosts of the confederacy, p242
the devil knows how to ride p 385
Bloody Bill Anderson the short savage life of a civil war guerrilla p 137
Noted Guerrillas p 366

First 3 books all have him entering town going to hotel for drinks with Dave Pooles band 25-30 men in all, then enrolling and leaving, with Archie coming bk shortly after to return to hotel

Noted guerrillas same basically but doesn't specifically say Pooles band enrolled while there, however it does name his companion Archie returned with after they left town, Young Hicklin and says Hinklin did escape

 

[Booner]

First 3 books all have him entering town going to hotel for drinks with Dave Pooles band 25-30 men in all, then enrolling and leaving, with Archie coming bk shortly after to return to hotel.

This is the story that I recall. IIRC, they kind of thought it was a joke as they were required by law to join the militia.

 

[Patrick H]

Its the account gave in gray ghosts of the confederacy, p242
the devil knows how to ride p 385
Bloody Bill Anderson the short savage life of a civil war guerrilla p 137
Noted Guerrillas p 366

First 3 books all have him entering town going to hotel for drinks with Dave Pooles band 25-30 men in all, then enrolling and leaving, with Archie coming bk shortly after to return to hotel

Noted guerrillas same basically but doesn't specifically say Pooles band enrolled while there, however it does name his companion Archie returned with after they left town, Young Hicklin and says Hinklin did escape

Yes, I have been referring to Brownlee, too. I see what you mean. I knew that Poole led groups in to surrender in 1865 and was actually recruited to go out and lead in others, which he did. Archie never came in to surrender. Now we have this later reference in Brownlee's book. I respect Brownlee's work very much.

Richard Brownlee was the Secretary of the Mo State Historical Society in Columbia. You can bet that if he told the story this way, it's because he had the story from a reputable source and he had the militia roll in his archives in Columbia. This doesn't mean Archie actually signed the thing, of course, but Brownlee had reason to believe this was why he came to town that day in 1866.

You have to take a lot of what Edwards writes in most of his books with SEVERAL grains of salt. I would not count on him as a reliable reference for anything other than big windy stories. Ergo, put NOTED GUERRILLAS back on your shelf and pull it down for entertainment, but only believe it when you can cross reference its claims.

I have not read the book on Anderson, but will try to acquire it.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Patrick H]

This is the story that I recall. IIRC, they kind of thought it was a joke as they were required by law to join the militia.

Heck, Booner, EVERYONE was always required by law to join the militia. You don't imagine a little technicality like the law had much of an impression on some of those boys, do you? (I know you don't)

 

[archieclement]

Disagree a bit on Edwards, he was biased as most early writers were, but most all authors still count on his works. One cant completely discount one thing about Edwards..... Of all the authors he was the one who knew a lot of the priniciples firsthand and had their confidence.

Every other author including Brownlee, Castel,, Connelly, Goodrich, Monaghan, uses it

Edwards is alot like Connelly, have to consider bias of both

 

[John S. Carter]

Today is the 151st anniversary of the Lawrence Massacre of 1863 conducted by Captain William C. Quantrill, CSA.

Question : Was this man a faithful soldier or a bloody murderer?

* Virginia contains the most American Civil War conflicts. Tennessee is second on the list. Missouri is third.....

The area that he fought in was one of revenge for past attacks on the others side.There was no such terms as Rules of Engagement as to this arena. There is no pardon for what took part on either side.This would continue even after the war.The states of Kentucky , West Virginia,and Missouri would be inflamed for at least ten years. Quantrill and bands like his would be the breeder of men who would become notorious and carry what this hatred with them after the war.

 

[diane]

I was just thinking about the age of these characters as a factor in their actions - almost all of them were teenagers or not much over 25. Kids! I wonder about the strange and rather chilling remark Mosby made, when he was scolded by a reporter for having so many teenagers in his outfit. "Why, they make the very best soldiers," said Mosby. "They haven't got the sense to be afraid and they will do whatever I tell them."

 

[Boonslick]

have not read the book on Anderson, but will try to acquire it.

Pat- I have this book if you want to read it contact me. (Keep in mind that I have met this author and was not impressed with him).

 

[archieclement]

Pat- I have this book if you want to read it contact me. (Keep in mind that I have met this author and was not impressed with him).

Curious as to which one? Was coauthored between Castel and Goodrich.

I was somewhat disappointed with it myself, other then a little early Anderson family history, it mainly just repeats other works on most of his guerrilla career. Kinda seemed a low effort book to make some income.........IMO

 

[James N.]

An open question----

If Q was a colonel, would that rank have had to been approved by the CSA congress and/or president?
or, could a General promote him without the need of approval by other parties?

Although Ouantrill called himself Colonel, I've heard that his only commission was as a captain of cavalry. Generals could promote persons to various ranks up to and including that of general but they still had to be confirmed by the appropriate civil government for those ranks to be "official." There are various examples of this not working, as when the Confederate Congress refused to sanction some appointments and notably toward the end of the war when General Edmund Kirby Smith at his headquarters in Shreveport, Louisiana in the Trans-Mississippi Department appointed several colonels to the rank of Brigadier General and was unable to even inform the regular government on the other side of the Mississippi River of what he had done, much less receive their approval. These men served as generals up to the time of surrender yet are not considered to be among the 425 recognized general officers of the Confederacy.

 

[Rebforever]

Coming back three years and a little more than a week after Bill's first post, I ask: Can he be both a faithful soldier and a bloody murderer? I think he can and I think he was, depending on the circumstances.

TCB!! Taking care of Business!!

 

[mofederal]

The book Bloody Bill is ok, but I came away thinking what is missing. it lacks somethingt. I mean I don't think either author understood the subject. It is a short book, I think there is more information out there. Consider the fact, they really don't know where he was born, you still see both Ky and Mo., listed as his birth place. I saw in one source it was one of two townships in Randolph County, and the date of his birth, I have seen three given, 1838, 39 and 1840. I have read neither of the other two books on Bill, the ones written by Larry Wood and Gayle Lunning. I can't even find Hale's book on Archie Clement anywhere.