Burnside Carbine M1864 "5th" Model

[cwpvt100]

Good Morning,

Just got this in the mail yesterday, I am super happy to have her! i am using the auction house photos, because, they are WAY better than the ones I attempted to take. I have another 5th Model that is identified as issued to the 1st Texas (US) Cavalry, but she is in REALLY rough shape. This one is gorgeous and presents as untouched and fully functional. I have a replacement barrel band that I will be swapping out for this one, but am plannign to leave the hammer screw that is present. I will not fire it, but I wouldn't hesitate to do so based on it's condition.

Would someone be kind enough to take a look and see if this SN# hits anything in the SRS?

Burnside Rifle Co. Providence, Rhode Island
Model of 1864
Burnside Patel March 25th, 1856
SN#21146

Thank you!!!!

 

[rob63]

Yours is only one off of one recorded. Coincidentally, it is also very, very close in serial number to the one I own, which is also just one off from one recorded to the very same unit.

Unfortunately, close is not considered to be the same thing as a match, or a "range match" or anything else that people come up with, as much as I may wish to believe otherwise.

20990 - - 102463 - CO L 6TH IND VOL CAV-
21095 - - 102463 - CO L 6TH IND VOL CAV-
21137 - - 102463 - CO L 6TH IND VOL CAV-
21137 - - 65 - CO L 6TH IND VOL CAV -
21145 - - 64 - CO M 6TH IND VOL CAV -
21152 - - 102463 - CO L 6TH IND VOL CAV-
21152 - - 65 - CO L 6TH IND VOL CAV -
21170 - - 102463 - CO L 6TH IND VOL CAV-
21170 - - 65 - CO L 6TH IND VOL CAV -

Here is mine (21138):

 

[JOHN42768]

Once you replace the bayonet band with correct one will improve it's looks

 

[cwpvt100]

Once you replace the bayonet band with correct one will improve it's looks

Was that supposed to be Barrel Band? I found an original, and it is on it's way!

 

[cwpvt100]

Yours is only one off of one recorded. Coincidentally, it is also very, very close in serial number to the one I own, which is also just one off from one recorded to the very same unit.

Unfortunately, close is not considered to be the same thing as a match, or a "range match" or anything else that people come up with, as much as I may wish to believe otherwise.

20990 - - 102463 - CO L 6TH IND VOL CAV-
21095 - - 102463 - CO L 6TH IND VOL CAV-
21137 - - 102463 - CO L 6TH IND VOL CAV-
21137 - - 65 - CO L 6TH IND VOL CAV -
21145 - - 64 - CO M 6TH IND VOL CAV -
21152 - - 102463 - CO L 6TH IND VOL CAV-
21152 - - 65 - CO L 6TH IND VOL CAV -
21170 - - 102463 - CO L 6TH IND VOL CAV-
21170 - - 65 - CO L 6TH IND VOL CAV -

Here is mine (21138):

View attachment 497295
View attachment 497296

That is unusual! Pretty amazing to be so close to yours.

I greatly appreciate you taking the time to check mine, and list those ones that are close, but no cigar. I collect just because i enjoy it, and I love knowing as much as possible about provenance. You looking that up means a lot to me, thank you Sir.

I know a match is not a match, but would it not be unusual to have an unissued or issued to another unit gun in the same crate as all of those issued to one unit? No way to know for certain, but it seems unlikely that i would not have been issued to the 6th IN Cavalry.

 

[scooter748driver]

Weapons weren't assembled sequentially. While it would seem to make sense to think that weapons from serial number x to number y would be shipped together, my understanding is that they shipped what was on hand and available.

While it's possible, the only way to know for sure is a direct match on the SRS or some other document that states the specific serial number with a unit.

 

[rob63]

That is unusual! Pretty amazing to be so close to yours.

I greatly appreciate you taking the time to check mine, and list those ones that are close, but no cigar. I collect just because i enjoy it, and I love knowing as much as possible about provenance. You looking that up means a lot to me, thank you Sir.

I know a match is not a match, but would it not be unusual to have an unissued or issued to another unit gun in the same crate as all of those issued to one unit? No way to know for certain, but it seems unlikely that i would not have been issued to the 6th IN Cavalry.

It certainly seems logical. However, the problem with the assumption is that if you look at the numbers involved it becomes obvious, as stated in the previous post, that they did not ship, or issue, guns in sequential order. The SRS database includes the carbines listed to 3 companies of the 6th Indiana, F, L, & M.

The first gun listed is serial number 19607, issued to Company L.
Number 19628 was issued to Company F.
Number 19631 was issued to Company M.

The final gun issued to Company L is serial number 22,295. That is a range of 2688 numbers between the first and last carbines issued to a single company! The entire 6th Indiana cavalry never had that many men in it. Thus, it's just not possible to make assumptions about the guns that aren't listed.

It certainly seems reasonable to assume that the remainder of the regiment was armed with guns in that same general range, but, unfortunately, they are not a one-to-one match in total numbers so you can't really conclude anything about a specific serial number.

 

[limberbox]

I call them "plausibles" -- seeming reasonable or probable.

Only numbers for one company (G) of the 3rd Iowa Cavalry's Burnsides have surfaced. While I wasn't able to find a gun that was a match, I was fortunate enough to find a nice, well-worn one within that range of numbers. To me, it's unknown but plausible that it was carried by a member of the regiment. That met my collecting goal: correct type, model, appropriate wear and within a range of numbers identified to the regiment or any portion thereof.

 

[limberbox]

I call them "plausibles" -- seeming reasonable or probable.

Only numbers for one company (G) of the 3rd Iowa Cavalry's Burnsides have surfaced. While I wasn't able to find a gun that was a match, I was fortunate enough to find a nice, well-worn one within that range of numbers. To me, it's unknown but plausible that it was carried by a member of the regiment. That met my collecting goal: correct type, model, appropriate wear and within a range of numbers identified to the regiment or any portion thereof.

... and faint cartouche remnants.