"Baggage"

[JohnG0609]

So we read all the time, that units are ordered to move "with baggage" or "without baggage." It occurred to me that I "think" I know what that means but I don't really know.

Does "baggage" have a doctrinal definition? What does it mean to move with or without baggage?
I've always assumed it meant the camp equipment, tents, personal items, etc. Not really military necessities in active operations. Also, I assume "baggage" means wagons, but wagons don't have to carry baggage, as I think rations and ammo aren't considered baggage. So you can't really infer no wagons from an order to "carry no baggage." I hope that makes sense.

But I could be wrong!

What are you guys thoughts on what "baggage" means? Anything that is an impediment to rapid movement that isn't beans or bullets?

 

[35th MA InfRegt]

Baggage is more or less what it says on the tin. It includes all camp equipage, and officers` personal belongings. Officers` personal belongings were weight-limited by official regulations and general orders. I don't believe baggage included wagons, rations or ordnance. See here for pertinent regulations.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=miun.agy4285.0001.001&seq=163&q1=Baggage&start=1

 

[JohnG0609]

Baggage is more or less what it says on the tin. It includes all camp equipage, and officers` personal belongings. Officers` personal belongings were weight-limited by official regulations and general orders. I don't believe baggage included wagons, rations or ordnance. See here for pertinent regulations.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=miun.agy4285.0001.001&seq=163&q1=Baggage&start=1

Bullseye! and thanks for the fast reply. I'm a very doctrine driven researcher so a prescriptive definition saves me a lot of obsessive digging!

 

[JohnG0609]

Baggage is more or less what it says on the tin. It includes all camp equipage, and officers` personal belongings. Officers` personal belongings were weight-limited by official regulations and general orders. I don't believe baggage included wagons, rations or ordnance. See here for pertinent regulations.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=miun.agy4285.0001.001&seq=163&q1=Baggage&start=1

If I may ask, what was the general tonnage capacity for 4 team and 6 team wagon? Understanding that not all wagons were of the same type or capability.

 

[lelliott19]

If I may ask, what was the general tonnage capacity for 4 team and 6 team wagon? Understanding that not all wagons were of the same type or capability.

Member @Rhea Cole shared info for 4-horse or 4-mule wagons here in a previous thread.

Wagon Supply | Questions? Ask Here! No Stone Left Unturned!

What’s the greatest distance over which an army attempted to sustain itself for a length of time via wagons in the ACW?

civilwartalk.com

 

[JohnG0609]

Member @Rhea Cole shared info for 4-horse or 4-mule wagons here in a previous thread.

Wagon Supply | Questions? Ask Here! No Stone Left Unturned!

What’s the greatest distance over which an army attempted to sustain itself for a length of time via wagons in the ACW?

civilwartalk.com

Fantastic. Thank you

 

[Rhea Cole]

If I may ask, what was the general tonnage capacity for 4 team and 6 team wagon? Understanding that not all wagons were of the same type or capability.

This article from the Liberty Rifles website directly answers your question.

It all depended on what kind of container the goods were in.

Link:

Barrels, Boxes, and Bags: Notes on US and CS Army Ration Packaging — The Liberty Rifles

www.libertyrifles.org

 

[JohnG0609]

@Rhea Cole

This article from the Liberty Rifles website directly answers your question.

It all depended on what kind of container the goods were in.

Link:

Barrels, Boxes, and Bags: Notes on US and CS Army Ration Packaging — The Liberty Rifles

www.libertyrifles.org

thank you Rhea! I knew you'd have the answer

 

[Rhea Cole]

@Rhea Cole

thank you Rhea! I knew you'd have the answer

More likely I might know who does!

The Liberty Rifles is an excellent source.

 

[Rhea Cole]

I am recommending a manual that you should definitely download. Our Civil war era ancestors knew all about what is in it from childhood. Those of us who study the 19th Century are, as a rule, profoundly ignorant about how animal tractive power was managed or its practicalities.

This is the Peace Corps Animal Traction Manual. It is profoundly practical. A Peace Corps Volunteer really needs to know how to get up before dawn, saddle a yack & ride all day.

This is a real eye opener.

Link:

https://eastafricaschoolserver.org/content/_public/Reference%20Tools/Peace%20Corps%20Resources/M0012_Animal_Traction.pdf

PCV Ecuador 1972-76

 

[Trooper "D"]

So we read all the time, that units are ordered to move "with baggage" or "without baggage." It occurred to me that I "think" I know what that means but I don't really know.

Does "baggage" have a doctrinal definition? What does it mean to move with or without baggage?
I've always assumed it meant the camp equipment, tents, personal items, etc. Not really military necessities in active operations. Also, I assume "baggage" means wagons, but wagons don't have to carry baggage, as I think rations and ammo aren't considered baggage. So you can't really infer no wagons from an order to "carry no baggage." I hope that makes sense.

But I could be wrong!

What are you guys thoughts on what "baggage" means? Anything that is an impediment to rapid movement that isn't beans or bullets?

Do mother's in law fit the defiinition?

 

[JohnG0609]

Do mother's in law fit the defiinition?

Sorry, no. They are counted as a part of original baggage. The wife. Defined as the weight that defies any scale man can devise to figure it out.

 

[Rhea Cole]

A Practical Example of the Military Definition of "Baggage"

First wagons to enter Petersburg. LCC

"Friction" is the term the Romans used to describe the increasing difficulty armies have maintaining the pace of an advance. The tail of support being dragged behind is a function of the daily range of a draft horse.

A horse can pull a wagon 20 miles day in day out. Exceed that limit & a breakdown is inevitable. For that reason, Grant saw to it that river landings & rail heads were ten miles from distribution points. Middle Tennessee was a massive challenge. Not only did the Army of the Cumberland advance, it intended to occupy.

Just to establish a concept of the scale of the challenge Rosecrans' faced, on this detail of a Tullahoama Campaign map Murfreesboro to Manchester is (+/-) the same as Gettysburg to the Potomac River crossing. The word Murfreesboro is (+/-) the size of the Gettysburg battlefield as on Lee's map of Pennsylvania.

Tullahoma Campaign, U.S. Military Academy

Rosecrans' ultimate goal was Chattanooga 100 modern miles from Murfreeboro & on the other side of the…

Pontoon bridge construction, Bridge Point on Tennessee River. LCC

…2,000 feet of the Tennessee River crossing. If that weren't enough, half of the route was up & over Monteage Mountain & across the fifty mile food desert of the Cumberland Plateau.

As you would expect, during the winter & spring while the 14th Army Corps morphed into the Army of the Cumberland, the officer's quarters became progressively more elaborate. Human nature being want it is, transporting officer's baggage was liable to be a significant challenge… in reality not so much.

Rosecrans ordered headquarters to be reduced to a bare minimum of a table & a few chairs. Elaborate cook houses were a thing of the past, basic army issue cooking pots were the order of the day. Needless to say, somebody couldn't get with the baggage limit thing.

At Bradyville, twenty miles east of Murfreesboro, the left flank advance was straight up a daunting ascent. Ship's hawsers were laid out & infantry regiments were assigned the unenviable task of man handling artillery & support wagons & teams up the grade… in a torrential rain as it turned out.

Much to the horror of the officer's of General Palmer's division, Rosecrans showed up in person to supervise the giant bonfires that consumed excess baggage. You can imagine how that went over with the Cumberlanders. Who wouldn't enjoy tossing the boss' desk into the fire? No wonder they gave three cheers & a tiger to greet Rosecrans.

Rosecrans would have agreed with the logistician's definition of baggage as "Anything that you can't eat or shoot."

Link:

Mapping the Tullahoma Campaign - Emerging Civil War

As the presentations from this year’s Emerging Civil War Symposium air on C-Span3 I will publish the map I made to accompany each talk. Because our theme this year was “Forgotten Battles” I knew that some of the topics might not have quality maps for support. Furthermore, I assumed that many...

emergingcivilwar.com