Authentic Bugle?

[Specster]

Do you guys think this is a civil war era bugle. From my brief reseach I am having my doubts. I am sure there were many manufacturers and variations but almost all of the authetic bugles seem to transition at the end of the horn from copper to brass and I think this one is all copper (or all brass).

Opinions please.

http://images.craigslist.org/00X0X_8j3MxwxPcO9_600x450.jpg

 

[ole]

Do you guys think this is a civil war era bugle. From my brief reseach I am having my doubts. I am sure there were many manufacturers and variations but almost all of the authetic bugles seem to transition at the end of the horn from copper to brass and I think this one is all copper (or all brass).

Opinions please.

http://images.craigslist.org/00X0X_8j3MxwxPcO9_600x450.jpg

It's been dropped a few times, but doesn't resemble a Civil War Cavalry bugle.

 

[1863]

I am not trying to be funny, but it looks like something my granddaddy had on his still. Actually I was. Check out this site. This guy has a CW bugle for sale. Scroll down a ways, you will see it. It is similar to the one you posted.

http://www.flayderman.com/#misc

 

[Northern Light]

It's been dropped a few times, but doesn't resemble a Civil War Cavalry bugle.

Dropped a few times? It looks like it has been driven over by a Sherman tank! It is also missing a piece that would connect the mouthpiece to it.

 

[Specster]

The seller says it has no maker marks but rather museum inventory marking (I think in magic marker). He advertised it as missing the mouth piece.

 

[Mike Serpa]

I don't know but here are some photos of Civil War buglers at the Library of Congress. Maybe they might help.

http://www.loc.gov/search/?q=civil+war+bugle&fa=original-format:photo,+print,+drawing

Click on the photos for larger versions.

 

[Patrick H]

That'll buff right out! No...seriously, I can't judge its specific age. I've seen a number of old bugles in similar condition. Instrument bells, in particular, are awfully thin and they dent and damage easily. This is all too true with modern band instruments as well. I wouldn't even know how to price it, but it's obviously an authentic old bugle. Maybe not of the CW period, but authentic and old, nevertheless. The seller's asking price doesn't appear in your link, but if you can buy it for flea market sort of price I don't see how you can go wrong.

 

[Northern Light]

If you want it for a collection then maybe if it does cost much. If you want to play it, forget it. It is missing a piece that links it to the mouthpiece and it so misshapen that you will probably will never get any sound from the poor mistreated thing.

 

[M E Wolf]

An expert would help...I recommend Jari Villenueva

"Taps Bugler"

Google his name and a contact for many of his 'interests' should pop up. He's gone all over the world and is a collector as well.

M. E. Wolf

 

[Specster]

The seller isnt asking big money. Im not looking to play it, I want it only if it is related, or could be related, to a US war - preferably pre WWI. If I knew it was not a reproduction, and was a military bugle it would be worth my while to pick it up for the price being asked.

I have looked at period pics but cannot come to a conclusion as to whether it is authentic 19th century.

For all u people who responded, thank you all.

RFG

 

[E_just_E]

A couple of things here:

Here is a standard issue bugle:

This looks a lot like your picture, without the mouthpiece, the cord, and the additional brass mouth and shoulder pieces.

Look at the seam in this picture. Cannot see one in yours (but might be hiding.)

Unless you have a chance to hold it and look and see what it feels like (and I do not like the fact that there is no oxidation, even though it is in not a good shape) or unless it is like $30 or so (or put a number of $ that you are willing to burn for a reproduction), I'd pass...

 

[Specster]

E-Just,

Thank you for your valuable insight. I have a few more pics. If you want (Im not intending to make unwanted work for you) I will try and get them posted. I use an older browser because I am comfortable with it. I guess I need to change with the times. Regardless, I will try to get more pics to you. Thank you for your efforts.

Sincerely,

RFG

BTW - the asking price is $75....which, all things considered, does not seem that bad.

 

[Specster]

Expired Image Removedanother pic

 

[E_just_E]

E-Just,

Thank you for your valuable insight. I have a few more pics. If you want (Im not intending to make unwanted work for you) I will try and get them posted. I use an older browser because I am comfortable with it. I guess I need to change with the times. Regardless, I will try to get more pics to you. Thank you for your efforts.

Sincerely,

RFG

BTW - the asking price is $75....which, all things considered, does not seem that bad.

No worries. Just post them.

One thing about collecting Civil War items: Prepare to be burned doing it. And you need to get burned (more than a few times) to learn. If $75 is ok for you as an entry fee to that learning, you are the one who can make that decision. (I've seen people burn more than that in booze and/or food in one sitting.)

Here is one fairly disconcerting fact you should be aware of: about 95% of items billed as Civil War items are not original. And even some of the people who are selling some of them do not know that they are not original, because the person they got them from told them they were original. Then add the crooks to the equation...

 

[Specster]

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[Specster]

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One more view

 

[Patrick H]

I'll chime in one more time. I can't date it for you. For that, you need an expert. But I am satisfied that it is genuine. Genuine to which period, I am not sure. This is not a reproduction. This is an old bugle of SOME era that has been badly stored. It is missing not only the mouthpiece, but also the lead pipe, which connects the mouthpiece to the horn. All that said, it's not a fake. I just don't know its specific era. And it's not complete. Frankly, without knowing its era I would not pay $75. But that's just me. Perhaps it's worth that. The real deal is this: What's it worth to you? Make the seller a counter offer and see what happens.

 

[Specster]

I wrote the seller and told him I had questions on the item. He said, w/o knowing what the questions were that he would only take cash.

When I responded and said I have questions on the item, he said, and I am paraphrasing a bit, " that it came from a museum or such, that he was a collecter of pre -WW1 items and people often came 2 him for appraisals and as to authenticity."

He said, basically that he was and expert and I should believe him on that basis. He also refered me to a website which had "similar" civil war period bugles, Lords Encycolpedia of Civil War collectables.

E- Just - I know exactly what you mean, I have been burned - not so much civil war but WW2 and such. I met a guy who collected Picasso's paintings and he told me he got burned 2 times before he learned an important lesson. And u can imagine how deeply he got burned buying fake Picasso's. If the price is high, I trust virtually nothing and go to extremes before I buy....and that really pisses some people off - especially those trying to get over on u. Getting burned is a valuable lesson - hopefully it is not too expensive.

Tx

Spectser

 

[Specster]

Lastly, if it were legit, why would a museum part with it? We had a great museum, a gentleman who made of fortune in specialized steel collect and amazing array of midevil armor and wepaons but he also had items from as far back as the roman empire and greek city states. It was a small museum but the content was amazing. I would go about once a year. So choice was his collection he would often put it out on loan for movies.

6 months pasted and the museum closed. They said they moved "most" of the collection to another museum, 2 miles away. When I went to that museum 90% of the items were not on display. I have no idea what happened to the rest. If they auctioned them, I wish I knew about them although the collection was such that the prices would have been out of my reach.

 

[M E Wolf]

I'll like to see of Jari V. can't add to this -- I'll send him the link to this thread. Hopefully, he'll whip it out of his computer brain and tell you exactly what it is..etc.

M. E. Wolf