Ammo Ammo Replacement?

[Jantzen64]

I'd appreciate anyone pointing me to source material describing rules/regulations/best practices for replenishing ammo during a battle. Assuming the average rifleman had 40 in the box and an extra twenty or so in the pockets, and assuming 2-3 shots per minute, you're looking at a half hour firefight - maybe a little longer if you are able to take ammo from casualties. How is fresh ammo brought up to the firing line and distributed? Or does the unit leave the firing line to replenish? I don't recall that being discussed a lot in unit histories I've read (maybe I've just read the wrong ones!) Thanks in advance for any guidance!

 

[wtexas]

I don't have the source in front of me but at the Battle of Mansfield, LA, one regiment mentioned sending runners back to the supply wagons to get boxes of ammunition to bring forward to the men on the firing line.

 

[Mississippian1861]

It can vary. Sometimes a unit will pull off the line if there is one to replace it, sometimes ammo is brought up. But when you get to firing that much fouling is going to start to become a big problem.

 

[Jantzen64]

It can vary. Sometimes a unit will pull off the line if there is one to replace it, sometimes ammo is brought up. But when you get to firing that much fouling is going to start to become a big problem.

Was curious about technical details - were brigade wagons supposed to be placed a certain distance from the firing line? Was it up to the regiment to send runners, or was there a quartermaster delivery function? For a four hundred man regiment, that could be a lot of lead to carry - were there carts or some other tool to carry the boxes? For example, I know @Rhea Cole has documented use of horse feed bags for Spencer cartridges in Wilder's Brigade . . . .

 

[RedRover]

The infantrymen carried the basic load, as mentioned, in their cartridge boxes. Supplemented by quantities carried on the march in their knapsacks etc., and in their pockets in action.

From the 7th Ohio, a teamster with the ammo wagons who carried ammunition to their firing line...

Besides any necessary resupply from the rear, the troops in line would supply themselves from the cartridge boxes of the dead and wounded around them...

Veterans of the 14th Indiana, at Antietam, recalled the officers were frequently busied about this redistribution...

The 9th Virginia at Cloyd's mountain in 1864:

The 96th Illinois at Chickamauga in 1863...

The 53rd Ohio at the Battle of Dallas, Georgia in May, 1864... the officers distributing the ammo from the trains...

General Early's Army in the Shenandoah in September, 1864:

Sometimes resupply of ammunition was not available... the units either having to withdraw, or act with the bayonet.

Gen. T.J. Jackson.

...

Col. Chamberlain of the 20th Maine at Gettysburg...

 

[Jantzen64]

The infantrymen carried the basic load, as mentioned, in their cartridge boxes. Supplemented by quantities carried on the march in their knapsacks etc., and in their pockets in action.

From the 7th Ohio, a teamster with the ammo wagons who carried ammunition to their firing line...

View attachment 557623


Besides any necessary resupply from the rear, the troops in line would supply themselves from the cartridge boxes of the dead and wounded around them...

View attachment 557619

Veterans of the 14th Indiana, at Antietam, recalled the officers were frequently busied about this redistribution...

View attachment 557620

The 9th Virginia at Cloyd's mountain in 1864:

View attachment 557621




The 96th Illinois at Chickamauga in 1863...

View attachment 557612




The 53rd Ohio at the Battle of Dallas, Georgia in May, 1864... the officers distributing the ammo from the trains...

View attachment 557610



General Early's Army in the Shenandoah in September, 1864:

View attachment 557618


Sometimes resupply of ammunition was not available... the units either having to withdraw, or act with the bayonet.

Gen. T.J. Jackson.

View attachment 557604
...
View attachment 557605
View attachment 557606

Col. Chamberlain of the 20th Maine at Gettysburg...

View attachment 557608

Thank you!!

 

[wtexas]

Was curious about technical details - were brigade wagons supposed to be placed a certain distance from the firing line? Was it up to the regiment to send runners, or was there a quartermaster delivery function? For a four hundred man regiment, that could be a lot of lead to carry - were there carts or some other tool to carry the boxes? For example, I know @Rhea Cole has documented use of horse feed bags for Spencer cartridges in Wilder's Brigade . . . .

This is a great question. I am not aware of any books that have been written about tactical supply during the Civil War.

 

[DaveBrt]

The Quartermasters were responsible for keeping the supply of ammo up to requirements. This was done by the regimental QM or his enlisted assistant notifying the brigade QM of the need. The brigade QM, mounted, would head to the ordnance wagons and order forward the appropriate wagons (and probably lead them to the required spot himself) where the teamsters would help get the ammo delivered to the firing line.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Those of us who have fired muskets with black powder are aware of how it encrusts the bore. At a certain point, it is all but impossible to force a Minnie ball down to seat it higher me.

An important skill was to manage the transfer of regiments out of & into line under fire. Fortunately, all it takes is water vigorously shaken to clean out bore. In a pinch, peeing into the muzzle is an acceptable alternative… albeit the too hot to touch barrel would certainly have concentrated the mind.

Ammunition boxes & wagons were color coded.

Link: to artillery color code:

Ammunition Boxes

Trail Rock Ordinance


"After assembly, the completed cartridges were packed into white pine boxes for shipment, the caliber and number of cartridges being painted on both ends of the box. Different colors of paint were used to designate different types of ammunition. A manufacture location and date were also painted on the inside cover; ammunition degraded over time so knowing when it was manufactured was an important detail to the ordnance sergeants in the field. Musket, rifle, and carbine ammunition was generally shipped in boxes of 1,000 cartridges, or five rows of 200 cartridges apiece; pistol cartridges went out in smaller boxes of 600 rounds. Individual bundles of ten cartridges were then issued to the soldiers in the field."

Link:

Bullets for the Union: Manufacturing Small Arms Ammunition During the Civil War

Civil War bullets are perhaps the most common item collected from the era; the two armies expended bullets by the millions during the...

dan-masters-civil-war.blogspot.com

################

Saving General McCook's Ordinance Train

An extraordinary example demonstrating how ammunition was supplied to the firing line occurred on December 31,1862.

"As aide to General McCook, assigned to duty as ordnance officer of the right wing, I had charge of some seventy six or seventy seven heavily laden ammunition wagons, as I remember, each drawn by four horses or mules. General McCook had the largest corps in the army, and his ammunition trains were relatively large. But a single infantry company of about seventy five men and two mounted orderlies had been assigned to me as train guards. I was proud of this new command, but these ordnance treasures carried with them grave responsibilities…Danger already threatened, and it was soon prepared for movement…I decided to direct my train toward the center of the infantry line, keeping well to the front. At the very start a detachment of Confederate cavalry charged wildly upon the train, attacking and endeavoring to stampede our teamsters and animals, but with the aid of the plucky train guards and some help from Captain Pease, of General Davis' staff, we repulsed the attack and moved on…

While in the open ground, moving our ammunition train rapidly to the left, it was discovered by the enemy. In my anxiety for its safety, I had already reported the importance of the train to every cavalry officer within reach, and appealed for protection. Colonel Zahm, of the Second Ohio Cavalry…promised me all possible help, and promptly formed his regiment in line for that purpose. Major Pugh, of the Fourth Ohio Cavalry, at my request also placed his regiment on our flank, facing the enemy. The First Ohio, Second East Tennessee, and a battalion of the Third Ohio Cavalry were near at hand.
Alas, when the crisis came, a few minutes later, they were not in position to successfully withstand the shock. They were unprepared, and not in brigade line. Wharton's Confederates unexpectedly appeared in great force. His artillery opened fire furiously upon the Fourth Ohio Cavalry, and threw the regiment into some confusion


Captain Thurston's Account

Captain Gates P. Thruston of the 1st Ohio Infantry served as the ordnance officer for Major General Alexander McCook's Right Wing of the Union Army of the Cumberland at the Battle of Stones River. One of Thruston's duties was to manage the Right Wing's ammunition wagon train. As the fighting on the first day of the battle (December 31st, 1862) raged, Thruston prepared to move the train forward to near the Union lines. Confederate cavalry had gone around the Union right and into the rear, threatening to capture the ammunition train. Years later, Thruston recalled the fight to save the train.

As aide to General McCook, assigned to duty as ordnance officer of the right wing, I had charge of some seventy six or seventy seven heavily laden ammunition wagons, as I remember, each drawn by four horses or mules. General McCook had the largest corps in the army, and his ammunition trains were relatively large. But a single infantry company of about seventy five men and two mounted orderlies had been assigned to me as train guards. I was proud of this new command, but these ordnance treasures carried with them grave responsibilities…Danger already threatened, and it was soon prepared for movement…I decided to direct my train toward the center of the infantry line, keeping well to the front. At the very start a detachment of Confederate cavalry charged wildly upon the train, attacking and endeavoring to stampede our teamsters and animals, but with the aid of the plucky train guards and some help from Captain Pease, of General Davis' staff, we repulsed the attack and moved on…
While in the open ground, moving our ammunition train rapidly to the left, it was discovered by the enemy. In my anxiety for its safety, I had already reported the importance of the train to every cavalry officer within reach, and appealed for protection. Colonel Zahm, of the Second Ohio Cavalry…promised me all possible help, and promptly formed his regiment in line for that purpose. Major Pugh, of the Fourth Ohio Cavalry, at my request also placed his regiment on our flank, facing the enemy. The First Ohio, Second East Tennessee, and a battalion of the Third Ohio Cavalry were near at hand.

​

Alas, when the crisis came, a few minutes later, they were not in position to successfully withstand the shock. They were unprepared, and not in brigade line. Wharton's Confederates unexpectedly appeared in great force. His artillery opened fire furiously upon the Fourth Ohio Cavalry, and threw the regiment into confusion.

Soon apparently his entire command charged down upon us like a tempest, his troopers yelling like a lot of devils. They first struck the Fourth Ohio, which could make but little resistance. Colonel Minor Millikin, the gallant commander of the First Ohio, led a portion of his regiment in a most brilliant counter charge, but it had to retire with fearful losses. In the onslaught the dear, fearless colonel, my intimate college friend, engaged in single combat with a Texas ranger, and was slain.
There was no staying the Confederates. They outnumbered and outflanked us, and to tell the melancholy truth, our defending cavalry retired in confusion to the rear and left the ammunition train to its fate–high and dry in a cornfield. As may be imagined, our teamsters, the train guards and the ordnance officer (yes, I must admit it) were not left far behind in the general stampede. We fired one volley from behind the protection of our wagons, and then hunted cover in rear of a friendly fence and in the nearest thicket…The Confederates began to collect and lead away our teams and wagons, and our condition seemed desperate–indeed, hopeless.
Happily this appalling state of affairs did not last long. Some of our cavalry rallied, other Union detachments came to the rescue. Wharton had soon to look to his own flanks, and was kept too busy to carry off our train. The conflict fortunately shifted. Captain Elmer Otis, with six companies of the Fourth Regular Cavalry [4th U.S. Cavalry] , attacked Wharton's command with great vigor and success. Soon two battalions of the Third Ohio Cavalry came up from the rear…and nearly every wagon was finally recovered…and we were soon moving toward the Murfreesboro pike and the left of our army at double quick speed.
The enemy, still bent on destroying our train, followed us like sleuth hounds. Pat Cleburne's artillery fired some hot shots at us from a hill on the main battlefield, and just as we reached the Murfreesboro pike General Wheeler's troopers charged furiously upon escort and train and captured several wagons, but with the aid of our infantry they were soon repulsed, and the wagons recaptured.
Thus ended for the day the campaign of the ammunition train. Our army front on the new right, was finally established, and for the first time in many hours train guards and animals breathed freely and rested in safety.
–Gates P. Thruston, "Personal Recollections of the Battle in the Rear at Stone's River, Tennessee" in Sketches of War History 1861-1865: Papers Prepared for the Commandery of the State of Ohio, Military Order of the Loyal Legion of the United States., Volume VI.

Note: A metal detector survey discovered the location of Thurston's first position. Hundreds of clean out rounds were discovered in what is now these maintenance yard abject to the northern end of Stones River Cemetery.

Soldiers considered the clean out rounds as a wasted shot. The clean out bullets were packed with blue cartridge paper, so were easily recognizable.

Link;

The Williams Patent Bullet

It's pretty much inevitable -- if you're metal detecting a Civil War site, you're going to come across a bullet quite different from the sta...

touchthepast.blogspot.com

 

[Oceanweather]

Did Hardee's or Casey's tactical texts cover ammunition resupply / swap out of units as part of formation movements?

I am just guessing.

Someone with knowledge of these texts may know for sure.

Ryan

 

[RedRover]

Did Hardee's or Casey's tactical texts cover ammunition resupply / swap out of units as part of formation movements?

I am just guessing.

Someone with knowledge of these texts may know for sure.

Ryan

The tactical manuals do not make any notice of ammunition, besides how to load the weapons.

The Army regulations of the era note the basic modes of accountability of ordnance and ordnance stores in the hands of troops. The issue of ammunition in battle, direct from the ordnance trains, however, was a simple necessity that is not specifically described.

General Halleck's "Elements of Military Art and Science," (1846 and 1862 editions) was a basic manual of the era. He noted simply...

The Army of the Potomac, from March, 1863, to have at least 100 rounds per man with the trains, besides the 40 rounds in their cartridge boxes. The extra 20 rounds carried by the men, previously, in knapsacks, were to be thereafter kept with the trains, and issued before action, as necessary, for carriage in their pockets.

General Sherman called for 100 rounds of ammunition per man carried in the ordnance trains, besides the men's basic loads...

 

[Rhea Cole]

One of the wheezes that were raised against repeating rifles was that soldiers would waste ammunition, I have even seen it brought up in CWT discussions here on CWT. Supposedly the soldiers would fire wildly & run out of ammunition. Of course, that did not happen. However, a new method for mounted infantry carrying cartridges was called for.

Wilder, as usual, had given the novel ammunition handling challenge some thought & come up with a characteristically out of the box (literally) solution. Each man carried 100 rounds in his saddlebags.

Wilder's men used their horse's cavas feed bag, or in this case water bucket, as an ammunition pouch. All they had to do was reach in & scoop up a handful of rounds…

… drop them into the loading tube…

… click the follower in place & seven rounds were ready to fire. Often, a round was left in the chamber, giving the Spencer the same 8 rounds as an M-1 rifle. It also weighed the same 9 1/2 pounds.

Traditionally, as we have seen up thread, the reserve ammunition was carried in ponderous wagons somewheres in the rear. Wilder, with his doctrine of nimble mobility, took a very different course. He had light two wheeled ammunition carts that moved with the mounted infantry column.

I have never seen an image of Wilder's ammunition carts. However, it is highly likely that it was something like the artillery limber or caisson that could take rough handling.

Because the Spencer was not a muzzleloader, the doo-se-doo maneuvers required for cleaning out the residue in the bore did not apply. The units armed with Spencers could designate an ammunition party to bring forward reloads as necessary. That was another little recognized advantage appreciated by men armed with Spencers. The entire force was kept in the firing line, not regularly reduced by the necessity of removing fouling.

Note: Spencer repeaters used rimfire cartridges same as a modern .22 cal round. The demo rounds in the photo are spent center fire cases with a BB inside. That is a simple visual & rattle cue that the rounds are harmless & for demonstration purposes only. Safety first ?no?

The rectangular ammunition box that is associated with Spencer repeaters was only issued in very small numbers in the waning days of the war. Everyone that I know who uses one for demonstrations says that it is as clumsy as it looks. A simple bag is much preferred.

 

[Jantzen64]

Did Hardee's or Casey's tactical texts cover ammunition resupply / swap out of units as part of formation movements?

I am just guessing.

Someone with knowledge of these texts may know for sure.

Ryan

I had checked Hardees and didn't see anything detailing procedures. Weird for the army not to have a procedure . . . .

 

[Jantzen64]

Thanks, Rhea! Was hoping you'd show up on the thread.

 

[Trooper "D"]

General Cleburne had ammunition boxes brought to the firing line and he even helped handing out cartridges to this engaged Infantry. Whatever works I guess.
Did they reuse empty ammo crates? They would be great for campfires. Stools and handy boxes until time to march and then burn them for boiling your coffee.

 

[bayonet]

Took the ammo from the Dead, they don't need it anymore!

 

[Rhea Cole]

General Cleburne had ammunition boxes brought to the firing line and he even helped handing out cartridges to this engaged Infantry. Whatever works I guess.
Did they reuse empty ammo crates? They would be great for campfires. Stools and handy boxes until time to march and then burn them for boiling your coffee.

There was a lot more logistics based recycling going on than one would imagine. All manner of things were shipped in gunny sacks. The quartermasters went to great lengths to retrieve them & return them to depots for reuse.

The boxes used by the Augusta Arsenal & Depot were designed to fill a boxcar with no wasted space. The empty boxes were collected & the boxcars were returned to the depot where empties were replaced with loaded boxes. This was a very efficient, you could day modern, system.

We discussed ammunition boxes on CWT. This thread covers artillery ammunition boxes. Read more here.

Link:

Thread 'How Were Empty Artillery Ammunition Boxes Exchanged?'

Sep 13, 2020

How Were Empty Artillery Ammunition Boxes Exchanged?

During a visit to Stones River N.B. I had a chance to photograph a limber, Aimes 14 pound rifle & a caisson with a limber all in one frame.
These pieces are ordinarily properly in battery at the position of the Chicago Board of Trade Battery position Dec 31, 1862.
They had been moved during maintenance.

Several times on this forum the question of how artillery ammunition boxes were exchanged.
There is a clearly defined procedure by the numbers in the manual, but that isn't a very easy thing to...​

• Rhea Cole
• Replies: 14
• Forum: Cannons / Artillery & Crew Served Weapons

• 

A box that was designed to pack a boxcar without a waste of space was the U.S. Sanitary Commission Comfort Box. A wounded soldier arrived at a hospital almost naked. The Sanitarians created a wooden / chest that contained a night shirt, soap, cup, pen / ink / stamped envelopes / paper, a pocket knife, candles / matches, & most wonderfully a hand made 4' X 7' quilt.

Ladies groups & families sewed the standard sized quilts. Each one was accompanied by a self address envelope, paper & a note from the makers to the anonymous recipient. There is no way to exaggerate the morale boost that the Sanitarian quilts had.

Another box that had to be returned was the boxcar itself. That was a constant preoccupation of the quartermasters. Everyone saw an empty boxcar as a prefab HQ, barracks or storage shed.

 

[Yankeedave]

Bring up ammo to the 5th Corps. Battle of the Wilderness

 

[Trooper "D"]

There was a lot more logistics based recycling going on than one would imagine. All manner of things were shipped in gunny sacks. The quartermasters went to great lengths to retrieve them & return them to depots for reuse.

The boxes used by the Augusta Arsenal & Depot were designed to fill a boxcar with no wasted space. The empty boxes were collected & the boxcars were returned to the depot where empties were replaced with loaded boxes. This was a very efficient, you could day modern, system.

We discussed ammunition boxes on CWT. This thread covers artillery ammunition boxes. Read more here.

Link:

Thread 'How Were Empty Artillery Ammunition Boxes Exchanged?'

Sep 13, 2020

How Were Empty Artillery Ammunition Boxes Exchanged?

During a visit to Stones River N.B. I had a chance to photograph a limber, Aimes 14 pound rifle & a caisson with a limber all in one frame.
These pieces are ordinarily properly in battery at the position of the Chicago Board of Trade Battery position Dec 31, 1862.
They had been moved during maintenance.

Several times on this forum the question of how artillery ammunition boxes were exchanged.
There is a clearly defined procedure by the numbers in the manual, but that isn't a very easy thing to...​

• Rhea Cole
• Replies: 14
• Forum: Cannons / Artillery & Crew Served Weapons

• 

A box that was designed to pack a boxcar without a waste of space was the U.S. Sanitary Commission Comfort Box. A wounded soldier arrived at a hospital almost naked. The Sanitarians created a wooden / chest that contained a night shirt, soap, cup, pen / ink / stamped envelopes / paper, a pocket knife, candles / matches, & most wonderfully a hand made 4' X 7' quilt.

Ladies groups & families sewed the standard sized quilts. Each one was accompanied by a self address envelope, paper & a note from the makers to the anonymous recipient. There is no way to exaggerate the morale boost that the Sanitarian quilts had.

Another box that had to be returned was the boxcar itself. That was a constant preoccupation of the quartermasters. Everyone saw an empty boxcar as a prefab HQ, barracks or storage shed.

Awesome photo of the the Artillery equipment all together. Only missing the supply wagon.
Hey I was wondering, do you hear about guns coming up for sale besides the usual foundry choices?

 

[rpkennedy]

One of the more famous incidents of resupplying engaged forces is the so-called Mule Train Charge on July 1 at Gettysburg. That afternoon, Ordinance Sergeant Watrous volunteered to lead a 10 wagon train to where his comrades were fighting. He had men throw ammunition boxes out while he broke them open with an ax so that they could be distributed to the men on the line.

Ryan