Absent Commanders

[ole]

I think we underestimate the difficulty of herding 30,000 men across 300 miles. You have to scatter them and, at the same time, keep them together so they don't straggle. (Seems that Sherman's KIA were largely those who went on independent foraging expeditions.)

Foraging was intentionally done by officer-led parties large enough to defend themselves against bushwhackers and Wheeler's numerous patrols. The bummers were more independent and were considered to be stragglers.

I will guess that our Vets can tell stories we don't want to hear on a family board. (Ever take a bus-load of first-graders on an outing?)

I believe that Sherman was realistic enough to anticipate such shenanigans and that is why he took two solid (if not CMO earners) performers in whom he could place considerable faith.

Ole

 

[K Hale]

Glorybound, that was indeed me who asked -- thanks for that info.

 

[Elennsar]

Exactly. For the most part, whatever goal Sherman assigned him, Howard accomplished. Unfortunately what Howard did before Chancellorsville and Gettysburg and what he did after receives little comment.

Particularly the after. Before - Howard's career does not strike me as a great model. Its nothing to be ashamed of, but I'm still left wondering how he went from brigade to corps.

But one can't argue with what he did in 1864 or 1865.

Nothing glorious, but glory isn't what counts in measuring competence. If it was, Morgan would be a hero and (John) Buford would deserve to be a "Who?"

And that would be absurd.

Leah: I think I've seen that quote before.

If memory serves, Kearny lost his left arm in Mexico as it turns out.

I wonder how Howard reacted. Howard does not seem to have been blessed with a great sense of humor (not that he was humorless, but some people have a great sense of fun and that sort of thing and most don't).

Still, Howard seems to have been a reasonable guy. Bit too pious for the likes of XI Corps, but he seems - at least at that point (he grew from there, apparently, kudos) - not fit for corps command.

Its a big jump and plenty of perfectly worthy officers (like Ewell) don't quite make it.

 

[K Hale]

Believe it or not, it was actually Howard and not Kearny who came up with the buying-gloves line. Kearny just set it up. From Sears' To the Gates of Richmond:

General Howard's right arm had to be amputated, and the next day Phil Kearny, who had lost his left arm in the Mexican War, consoled him. "General, I am sorry for you, but you must not mind it; the ladies will not think the less of you!" Howard laughed and observed that at least the two of them could now buy their gloves together. "Sure enough!" Kearny said with a grin, and the two generals shook hands on it with the hands left to them.

Now that Kearny has come into the thread -- he's another guy who led from the front, and got shot. Theories on how far he would have gone if he had not been killed in '62? As far as I know, a hard fighter but didn't really get on well with others (he was one of the cadre of disgruntled guys Hooker surrounded himself with) and AFAIK not any kind of administrative genius. He was one hard-core dude, though. As was Howard, really.

 

[Elennsar]

Kudos to Howard - I am pleasantly surprised that he's the one whose line it was.

I think Kearny might have made corps command. He had similiar (better, maybe, but I'm not sure) credentials to Sickles militarywise, I think.

I don't know enough about him besides that he was a hard fighter and aggressive to weigh whether that would be good or bad. The Army of the Potomac could use some more aggressive spirit, but on the other hand, as Sickles demonstrated - uncooperative subordinates are terrible.

Aggressive or otherwise.

http://tinyurl.com/moahek

Its off topic that Sickles was insubordinate to the point of near disaster, but worth reading.

I think Kearny would have avoided that, but I'm not sure.

 

[Leah's Choice]

Believe it or not, it was actually Howard and not Kearny who came up with the buying-gloves line. Kearny just set it up. From Sears' To the Gates of Richmond:

I checked back on the Howard page on Wikipedia to make sure I didn't misquote what I read there, and I typed it as it is written there. No source is quoted for it though.

 

[K Hale]

I think Kearny might have made corps command. He had similiar (better, maybe, but I'm not sure) credentials to Sickles militarywise, I think.

His credentials were much better than Sickles'. Although not a West Pointer, Kearny had fought in Mexico, Europe, and Africa, and had attended the cavalry school at Saumur in France. He was awarded the French Legion of Honor medal.

The problem he encountered, so I've read, is that he lived with a woman to whom he was not married, because his first wife refused to divorce him. This set tongues a-wagging and hurt his chances for advancement when the Civil War broke out, until after 1st Manassas when they realized they needed people who could walk and chew gum at the same time, regardless of what was going down in their personal lives.

Of course, when it comes to that, look at Sickles.

 

[Elennsar]

His credentials were much better than Sickles'. Although not a West Pointer, Kearny had fought in Mexico, Europe, and Africa, and had attended the cavalry school at Saumur in France. He was awarded the French Legion of Honor medal.

Okay, true. This is what happens when I type without making sure my wording is right.

What I meant was that Kearny has demonstrated that he's an aggressive, hard fighting officer, but not necessarily much more than that.

Definately a more in depth combat record (and military training) than Sickles, though.

 

[34 NC Co. H]

Lee tried leading troops directly into the fight on a few occasions (especially at the Wilderness) but he was never given the opportunity by the soldiers he was trying to lead.