Grant A Pragmatic Interview & Article About U. S. Grant

There is plenty to ponder and discuss in this passage about Grant. It illustrates the dichotomy of Grant, himself, and to me, it demonstrates why it is that he is such a fascinating individual to study.

Grant could be petty, vindictive, stubborn, overly sensitive, and partial to favorites; in dealing with troubling issues he sometimes was too eager to compromise principle in pursuit of pragmatic practice and too willing to accept things as they were. Yet he also displayed bravery, integrity, determination, persistence, generosity, gentleness, and self-confidence that if not as unshakable as is commonly portrayed was nevertheless astonishing. Critics who question his military renown fail to appreciate just how valuable common sense, character, courage, intuition, and the ability to cope with circumstances of war are to the making of a great commander. Grant may not have carried himself as did Robert E. Lee, embraced the pomp ad circumstance of war as did George McClellan, or expressed himself in William T. Sherman's colorful language of blunt realism and relentless logic; he may not have framed brilliant plans in the headquarters tent emphasizing elegant maneuvers or elaborate tactics -- but generals are defined not by how they look or what they say but who they are and what they do. Brooks D. Simpson, Ulysses S. Grant: Triumph Over Adversity, 1822-1865, Preface xiii​
 
Thank you, General Bee. I was there and just watched the whole thing again. I'm sticking to my initial reaction, an attempt to elevate President Grant and grind modern swords. That wasn't happening in the 1870s, no matter how badly modern historians wish it to be.

That wasn't your original point.

This was your original reaction:

He seemed to me very irritated with the notion of General Lee, placed upon a marble pedestal. Fine.

Yet, it sounded to me as though Mr. Simpson felt General Lee should be removed from the pedestal and replaced with General Grant.


I didn't see that in the video. Where did you see it?

What modern swords are being ground? What wasn't happening in the 1870s? Please elaborate.
 
Please elaborate.

People here hold historians to a standard of accuracy, and rightly so. They might hold themselves to the same standard.

Still looking for the evidence behind the original complaint. Help, anyone?

I am happy to.

Prof. Simpson does not seek to put anyone on a pedestal. EDITED BY MATTHEW MCKEON
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: Bee
I am happy to.

Prof. Simpson does not seek to put anyone on a pedestal. To claim he does shows one either did not pay attention or was not there.

If the poster was in the breakout session he had the opportunity to take it up with Prof. Simpson and chickened out.

I also believe that because Prof. Simpson is a known Grant scholar, than the pre-conceived notion is that he must be biased. He must be FOR Grant, and AGAINST Lee. Sigh. I challenge anyone who has these notions to actually read the Grant biography. It seems an impossible concept to grasp that one can to be an expert without falling in love with his subject. It is of no use to engage someone on this concept, as you are attempting to scale an emotional wall, rather than initiating intellectual discourse.
 
Emphasis on black rights, for starters. That's ridiculous within the context of the time, like it or not (we are talking about history here, remember).

Also, Colfax, Louisiana. That was a disaster that IMO was not honestly brought forth by the speaker. It's probably worthy of its own thread.

Hmm, emphasizing black rights is out of place in a discussion of Reconstruction? That's not history? Really?

EDITED BY MATTHEW MCKEON
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have three pictures in a place of honor in my den.

The first is George Washington, the second is of Abraham Lincoln and the third is of Grant.

To me, these are the three greatest heroes of the United States.

I would very much like to see Grant discussed here on this thread.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

Not me - Troiani, Currier & Ives, and Kellogg prints of Washington and no Lincoln, for example, but instead several Lees and even more Stonewalls - but there are two Grant souvenirs: One, a stained and cut-down but nevertheless authentic 1862 framed print by Kellogg that looks very little like him but was produced in the wake of Ft. Donelson; the other a blue glass bowl depicting Ulysses S. Grant that dates either from the a presidential campaign or more likely as a commemorative piece following his death.
 
I am going to take the conversation a little wider here, since there has been an accusation of a preference of scholars over unknowns, regarding participation. I know for one thing: Peter Carmichael, the Director of CWI would not stand for that. He has participated in panel discussions and even recently commented on a blog about how important it is to bridge the gap between academics and others. I have actually corresponded with Peter, and I can say that I am quite confident that this sort of "scholarly preference" would not be condoned.
 
The poster was in the break out session and asked questions, before the General Session speech. It was the professor who 'chickened out' with non-answers to the poster's questions. And they were meaningful questions, posed as thoughtfully and respectfully as possible. What a disappointment.
You sure do change your story a great deal, don't you?

Still waiting for a description of this exchange. What did the perfesser say, and why was he wrong? What did you ask? What did he say in response?

This remains a rather content-free thread when it comes to your dislike of the perfessor. Someone pointed out that back on June 5, you said that you were interested in going to the conference, and then you said: "It would be an honor to hear from Brooks Simpson and David Blight, *edited for language"

Wonder who was grinding those modern swords ...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
<to no one in particular> 4 pages of contentious exchanges about everything but the contents of the video & article. Perhaps I am not invested in this enough; I tend to check my emotions at the doorstep when I attempt to learn, so that I don't create a "pre-conceived notion" filter. There's just nowhere else to go from here. I told me so.
 
<to no one in particular> 4 pages of contentious exchanges about everything but the contents of the video & article. Perhaps I am not invested in this enough; I tend to check my emotions at the doorstep when I attempt to learn, so that I don't create a "pre-conceived notion" filter. There's just nowhere else to go from here. I told me so.

It's a shame. What did you think of the video?
 
It's a shame. What did you think of the video?

I enjoyed it very much, as I do all of Dr. Simpson's videos, articles, & books. Excuse me whilst I duck behind my ivory tower awaiting the next onslaught.
 
I'm not seeing this getting better. What I'm seeing is a lot of personal insults. Its unacceptable. I'm going to lock for a few hours, then probably wipe most of the name calling posts and reopen. It seems to me CWT can tolerate a discussion of US Grant, a major figure of the war, by an historian.
 
I just wasted a lot of time deleting posts. I think I deleted more posts tonight then I have in six months.

I deleted with a broad brush, and unfortunately we lost some baby with the bathwater.

Going forward I would like people to address the content of the video and transcript and not the other posters. If you feel the need to revisit these personal issues, you can PM each other or do something else.
 
@contestedground , in response to evaluating the video, I prepared this commentary, but I was a bit, umm, delayed in my ability to post it. I have listed some of the finer points gleaned from the interview:

1. "Bloody Slugfest" something that is often forgotten to do the efficiency of modern warfare is that during the Civil War, the victor suffered as much as the defeated regarding casualties. I found this fact to be well supported in the time I spent reading first hand letters viewing period photographs of the post battle scenes -- one of despair and destruction, as the fruits of victory were often hard to recognize.

2. Logistics. In the arena of war, it is often underwhelming to underscore the importance of remembering that an army runs on its stomach, and so does its stock. Not much has changed in 153yrs, except that rather than feeding the stock forage, one must feed the vehicles petrol. I agree with Professor Simpson that logistics should be viewed as important or more important than tactics.

3. Getting along with superiors. It is interesting that one of the most common criticisms of Grant arrives in the form of "He was terrible at politics". I beg to differ. Many a great general has been brought down by his inability to get along with his superiors. Grant excelled in this arena, as he made sure to reassure Lincoln through shared letters his military intentions, and importantly his disinterest in entering the political area to challenge Lincoln.

4. 'Turning point of the war". I was pleased that the interviewer brought to point the perceptions that the
Gettysburg/Vicksburg campaign victories were the "turning point of the war". Prof. Simpson re-visited that shortly after the Gettysburg victory, there was a period of time that both the confidence of the US citizenry was badly shaken, and the president himself was no longer confident in the outcome of the war, nor the security of a second presidential term. It was not until the PR coo of Sheridan's Ride & the Atlanta campaign that confidence began to rise

5. Cold Harbour. It is fortunate that recent scholarship has shed more light on the events that took place at the battle of Cold Harbour. As Prof. Simpson says, it is clearly state in the Meade letters that he was in charge, thus, a large part of the burden of failure rests on his shoulders. I have read the correspondence, and it is quite clear. I do find it interesting, as Simpson points out: Lee lost almost twice as many men in Pickett's Charge as Grant did in Cold Harbour, but yet, Grant is labeled "The Butcher".
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Learn About Us
About CivilWarTalk
Contact the Webmaster
Meet the Staff
Link to CivilWarTalk
Join Our Community
Register
Browse Forums
View Today's Discussions
Search the Forum
Get Help
FAQ
Student Guide
Forum Rules & Etiquette
Copyright / DMCA

     Contact Us CivilwarTalk on Facebook CivilWarTalk on YouTube CivilWarTalk on Twitter RSS Feed

Bringing the American Civil War and More to Life.
© 1999 - , CIVILWARTALK, LLC - Site Version 10.0

SlaveryTalk.com - SecessionTalk.com - CivilWarTalk.com - ReconstructionTalk.com
Back
Top