A little help needed

[Chres]

Hello all,

So I stumbled upon this weapon and being no expert of Civil War weapons systems am a bit stumped as to what it is exactly. To the best of my knowledge it is a Confederate Mendenhall, Jones & Gardner. I would guess that it was manufactured at the Deep River Armory at Jamestown in Guilford Country N.C. I would not presume to know any more. I thought it was a .58, however the overall length of weapon is 55 inches where the overall length of the .58 they manufactured was 48 3/8 inches. Is there someone who can give me a bit more info?


Thank you!

 

[CMWinkler]

Welcome.

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy. Someone here might be able to help.

 

[Albert Sailhorst]

Howdy and Welcome!

 

[nitrofd]

Welcome from the sunshine state.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Hello Chres.

Welcome to CivilWarTalk.

I'll ask the moderators to move this thread to our weapons forum.

Hopefully more of our weapons experts will be able to answer your questions.

 

[Chres]

Hello Chres.

Welcome to CivilWarTalk.

I'll ask the moderators to move this thread to our weapons forum.

Hopefully more of our weapons experts will be able to answer your questions.

Thank you.

 

[Lnwlf]

Moved

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Moved

Thanks !

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

According to Confederate Rifles and Muskets the lock markings on your rifle are in agreement with early production Mendenhall, Jones and Gardner Type II rifles. As you stated, the barrel should be 33 inches long with a .577 caliber bore. However, it appears that you rifle has had the original military barrel replaced with a civilian barrel. The lock has been milled to allow for the use of a "drum" style percussion bolster that is typical of many civilian arms. The hammer is likewise a replacement.
Unfortunately Murphy and Madaus do not have an example of a Guilford marked Type II lock, but other features on your gun are correct for a MJG rifle. I cannot tell from the pictures, but I am assuming that the butt plate is iron.
It's a real shame that the barrel is not original to the gun, but you still have a very cool and seldom encountered CS rifle there. Thanks for sharing with us.

Cheers,
Garrett

 

[Chres]

According to Confederate Rifles and Muskets the lock markings on your rifle are in agreement with early production Mendenhall, Jones and Gardner Type II rifles. As you stated, the barrel should be 33 inches long with a .577 caliber bore. However, it appears that you rifle has had the original military barrel replaced with a civilian barrel. The lock has been milled to allow for the use of a "drum" style percussion bolster that is typical of many civilian arms. The hammer is likewise a replacement.
Unfortunately Murphy and Madaus do not have an example of a Guilford marked Type II lock, but other features on your gun are correct for a MJG rifle. I cannot tell from the pictures, but I am assuming that the butt plate is iron.
It's a real shame that the barrel is not original to the gun, but you still have a very cool and seldom encountered CS rifle there. Thanks for sharing with us.

Cheers,
Garrett

Thank you so much! I am very impressed with your knowledge.

 

[James N.]

A very interesting rifle; welcome to the forums!

 

[dale007]

Hi Chres, the makers of your rifle began operations in 1862 and obtained a contract from the state of North Carolina for 10,000 pieces. It originally was a full stock with two flat brass bands and brass trigger guard. There will be serial numbers appearing on screw heads as well. You've got a great piece. Regards, Dale007

 

[Southern Articifer]

Hello all,

So I stumbled upon this weapon and being no expert of Civil War weapons systems am a bit stumped as to what it is exactly. To the best of my knowledge it is a Confederate Mendenhall, Jones & Gardner. I would guess that it was manufactured at the Deep River Armory at Jamestown in Guilford Country N.C. I would not presume to know any more. I thought it was a .58, however the overall length of weapon is 55 inches where the overall length of the .58 they manufactured was 48 3/8 inches. Is there someone who can give me a bit more info?


Thank you!

 

[Southern Articifer]

This one's tuff. There are many confederate rifles that fit the general configurations of the one in the images you have posted. The rifle in your post would have originally looked like a M1841, aka Mississippi rifle. It was one of the most copied styles of the Confederacy. In making copies of the M1841, confederate contractors generally omitted the patch box as your image shows. Likewise, the lock plate, side plate and trigger guard are like the 41, which shows in your images. What's missing are the rest of the fore stock and the 2 barrel bands that would have held the barrel and also the band springs. M.J.&G. made lock plates that were used by a number of these contractors. What makes this tuff to pin point is the barrel. It should have a bolster on it, not a drum as in your image. That tells us the barrel is not the original barrel to the gun.
Also, the lock plate has been re-cut to accept the drum. Originally, the top of the lock plate would have been flat and the bottom of the bolster would have rested on this surface. The next thing of note is the hammer. It's not the correct style for these military locks. Also, look at the difference in patina between the lock plate and the hammer. They're two different colors. This gun may have been a N.C. contractor M1841 style rifle but re-built post war for hunting. Now, here's one other possibility. The Florence armory near James Town in Gilford County made M.1841 rifles, but is reported to have made an unknown number using miscellaneous and re-claimed parts. If so, this would explain the use of a barrel fit with a drum, then having to cut out the lock plate to make the whole thing fit together, which would have been total acceptable in those times. Hope this helps the discussion...

 

[kel1985]

Welcome from Pittsburgh...can't add to the conversation other than to tell you that you have a great looking rifle, and I'm a little jealous.

 

[originalrebelyell]

Very interesting gun

 

[Camp Randall Armory]

While the barrel and hammer are not original to a Type II rifle, you have a very rare lockplate and stock there. MJ&G only made 360 rifles in 1862. In fact, if I'm reading the picture right, the serial number is "342" and this rifle was delivered to the state of NC on 18 December 1862. If you look at my avatar, that's a reproduction MJ&G Type II I built.