Which is most offensive?

[Elennsar]

I'm sure Longstreet would have quietly dumped him over the banks of the Hudson, dusted his hands, and walked away.

Guys, I'm torn on this. Whistler is just too much of an artist to quibble with.....Poe is....Poe. I love Armistead and think I'd probably have done the same thing (actually, it SOUNDS like something I've done in real life). And Custer....well, he stuck it out. I'm not sure what's offensive and what's just "boys will be boys."

Can't we think of something Sheridan did?

Fighting with a classmate causing him to be suspended for a year?

 

[Nathanb1]

Fighting with a classmate causing him to be suspended for a year?

Well, hitting someone over the head with a breakable object. Maybe a couple of times in my misspent youth. Maybe my husband.

 

[Elennsar]

Well, hitting someone over the head with a breakable object. Maybe a couple of times in my misspent youth. Maybe my husband.

Can't think of much about Sheridan's West Point years that particularly deserves scorn, unfortunately. Besides showing up, I suppose.

 

[War Horse]

Longstreet wouldn't do a thing like that. He would ask someone to do that for him!

I wouldn't be so sure

 

[War Horse]

Well, hitting someone over the head with a breakable object. Maybe a couple of times in my misspent youth. Maybe my husband.

I was hoping the plate was pewter.

 

[R. Alex Raines]

Whistler's heart just wasn't in it.
Assigned to draw a sketch of a bridge, he did so, with two young boys fishing from it.
The Instructor told him to take those boys off the bridge. He re-drew it with the boys fishing from the bank.
Ordered to get them put of the picture altogether, he replaced them with two gravestones.
Racked up a demerit or two right there.

jno

Authority, please. I need to read the original right now.

 

[R. Alex Raines]

None of these bother me at all, so I abstain. Poe and Whistler did not belong in the military. Custer graduated. At the end of the day, he was meant to be a fighter, not an engineer or artillery guy, so that doesn't bother me. And I will take the high road regarding old Jubal.

 

[ole]

From what little I've read about Early, I wonder why he only got one plate busted over his head.

 

[hanna260]

Can't think of much about Sheridan's West Point years that particularly deserves scorn, unfortunately. Besides showing up, I suppose.

Was just thinking after reading your first post, that letting Sheridan show up was a rather big offense. But I suppose that wasn't Sheridan's fault but rather who ever recommended him!

And I mean, really in Sheridan's case, getting suspended for a year for fighting a classmate, is pretty much nothing.

 

[Elennsar]

Was just thinking after reading your first post, that letting Sheridan show up was a rather big offense. But I suppose that wasn't Sheridan's fault but rather who ever recommended him!

And I mean, really in Sheridan's case, getting suspended for a year for fighting a classmate, is pretty much nothing.

Yeah. I just picked it because we needed something he did at West Point to point to as "But people like him are even worse.", and that was the only really significant event I could remember reading about.

The reasons I despise him are all post-WP.

 

[Desert Kid]

I think I'd watch Armistead break a plate over Early's head for just the comedy factor of it.

 

[John Hartwell]

Authority, please. I need to read the original right now.

Sorry. Embarrassed to say I can't provide one. That's a story that has stuck in my mind ever since I read it as a teenager, some 50+ years ago. Come to think of it, I recall the story as "illustrated" when I first read it, with pictures of bridge, boys, etc -- it might well have been in an old issue of "Classics Illustrated" or "Boys Life" (both regular reading since I was about 10)-- in either case, not a "historically authoritative" reference. If the story's not apocryphal, it's doubtless in one of the major Whistler autobiographies.
The best I can come up with now online are references to "misconduct in drawing class" as a reason for his dismissal. (Wikipedia).

I also find that his first job after leaving the Point was with the U. S. Coast Survey (he was recommended by Jeff Davis, another family friend -- & West Point drop-out). There he drew criticism for including things like birds, people, and occasionally mermaids in his illustrations of the coast. He lasted three months.
http://www.history.noaa.gov/stories_tales/whistler.html
https://noaacoastsurvey.wordpress.c...-at-artistic-flair-during-coast-survey-stint/

 

[MajGenl.Meade]

This is what I meant. Somewhat tongue-in-cheek as I was curious to see what comments might be drawn out by fellow CWTers.

Oh, I thought it was to find out which one we thought was the most undeserving of the punishment - so I picked Armistead. Surely it must be offensive and unjust to throw a cadet out for doing something that any right-thinking person would rejoice in?

 

[GELongstreet]

There are more occasions and cadets to think about. What about the Eggnog Riot 1826? One of those who managed to be not court-martialled became Secretary of War and later President of the CSA ... while several others still managed to become e.g. Generals, Governors or Supreme Court Judges.

 

[Frito]

Where else could Custer be but at the bottom of his class. Sheer dumb luck only lasts so long.

 

[GELongstreet]

Or what about the demerits?

In 1827 Albert G. Blanchard had 489 demerits - he still graduated and became a general during the civil war.

In 1829 Charles H. Larned (or Larnard) had an all-time record of 729 demerits! He still graduated, fought against Mexicans and Indians and finally managed to drown in a storm.

Around 1832 the rule of 200 demerits per year resulting in being deficient in conduct was enforced and those high numbers disappeared. There were even years with everyone being inside the limit. But not always ... in 1844 Thomas J. Lowe got 280 demerits and was expelled.

In 53 it was changed another time; to 100 demerits per half-year, and it received further tweaks during the following years. It still wouldn´t be for everyone - in the year 54/55 Cadet Selden S. Stetzel accumulated 346 demerits and was expelled as well.

Even the civil war wasn't able to keep all cadets in line. Meet the other George Meade from Pennsylvania. He was in the class of 1864 (with a lot of other others) and was expelled in 1862, being both over the the yearly (204) and half-yearly (107) limits; and being dead-last in french and also deficient in maths didn´t help.

Or for example John L. Worden, class of 66. In 1864 he had 99 demerits in the first half year and 95 in the second. Still got the gap? No - that year 5 cadets of the class were deficient in maths (four of them also being the lowest in French), including Worden.

In the same year Cadet James L. Richardson, class of 67, had 147 demerits for the half-year and also was deficient in maths.
As so many others near the lower end he was also bad in languages.

Next year they changed the system back to the yearly demerits - and nobody was above the limit this year ... in fact the only deficiencies, which still were numerous, were in maths. The professor must have been a real pain in the backside with most likely being responsible for most of the (academically) deficient cadets over several decades - Albert E. Church graduated first in the class of 1828 (yep, with Davis) and tought maths at West Point for 46 years.

 

[GELongstreet]

What about Ambrose Burnside? USMA Library records show that he never ever took a book out of it!

 

[MajGenl.Meade]

Wasn't that West Point library only open for two hours on a Saturday or something like that? Burn probably was stuck in mud somewhere or waiting for a pontoon

 

[rhettbutler1865]

Well, maybe that's so. It's certainly a good point about the need for spirit vs. rigid "rule-following".

But everything I have on Cushing says that it was Gideon Welles, not Lincoln, who permitted him to enter the navy (as Acting midshipman on the USS Minnesota). "The Admiral" was a kinsman, Joseph Smith - and Gideon Welles refused to re-admit Cushing to the Academy despite the family pressure.

The US Navy magazine has an interesting summary of his career at the end of this article:

http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1912-09-0/william-barker-cushing

This is part of Welles' letter describing his dealings and opinion of Cushing (very flattering too):



Did Lincoln pressure Welles into it, is it known?

Wow! I'm impressed!

 

[MajGenl.Meade]

Oh, that's like denting silly putty...