HF Westerns

[archieclement]

Possibly one the biggest historical killers was Porter Rockwell.........but doubt a serious attempt would be made for an unbiased account in film

 

[damYankee]

This is all I can find on this man, but he must have been one tough dude

Hendrick Arnold (1804-1849) is the earliest known Black Texas Ranger. Born in Kentucky in 1804, Hendrick Arnold arrived in Mexican Texas in 1826. He was described as "a free black man from San Antonio." Arnold's first service was during the Texas Revolution as a scout and guide for the Republic of Texas Army. He was present at the battle of San Jacinto where he served in his father-in-law Erastus "Deaf" Smith's spy company. In June of 1839, Arnold enlisted in Louis Frank's Company of Mounted Volunteers and in 1842 served with legendary Capt. John Coffee Hays in the Bexar County Rangers. From 1846 to 1847 during the Mexican War, he enlisted in Bell's Regiment of Texas Mounted Volunteers, which was a special regiment of U.S. Army Volunteers.

 

[TallTallMan]

Possibly one the biggest historical killers was Porter Rockwell.........but doubt a serious attempt would be made for an unbiased account in film

The recently-released American Primeval supposedly portrays Mormons really badly, but I haven't seen it to comment about either that or if Rockwell was in it.

 

[TallTallMan]

IN the 1970s there were a slew of hard-edged revisionist westerns. "Lawman" mentioned above. And "Ulzana's Raid" also with Burt Lancaster. But there's also "The Culpepper Cattle Company," (1972):
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The "Bad Company" (1972) with Jeff Bridges...

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and "The Spikes Gang" (1974) with Lee Marvin and Ron Howard...

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But perhaps the most shocking and 1970s revisionist western adventure of the era was 1975's "Apple Dumpling Gang"...

View attachment 540826

I have Ulzana's Raid on DVD, but it's so realistic and downbeat I've yet to bring myself to finish it

 

[TallTallMan]

This is all I can find on this man, but he must have been one tough dude

Never heard of him until now. Thanks!

There is a trail named after him.

Hendrick Arnold Nature Park ~ San Antonio River Authority

Hendrick Arnold is open to the public and currently has several trails available to explore. “Daniels Loop”, “Medina Trail”, and “Rachels Trail” are open at the park. Hendrick Arnold Nature […]

www.sariverauthority.org

 

[archieclement]

The recently-released American Primeval supposedly portrays Mormons really badly, but I haven't seen it to comment about either that or if Rockwell was in it.

Figure the religious nature to Rockwell, would make it controversial to try to do an unbiased account......thats the one aspect of Mormons I've always found a bit puzzling.

Their historical site of Nauvoo is just an hour or so away, and their presentations today strike me rather curious.

 

[TallTallMan]

Figure the religious nature to Rockwell, would make it controversial to try to do an unbiased account......thats the one aspect of Mormons I've always found a bit puzzling.

Their historical site of Nauvoo is just an hour or so away, and their presentations today strike me rather curious.

Here's an unbiased account!

 

[damYankee]

Never heard of him until now. Thanks!

There is a trail named after him.

Hendrick Arnold Nature Park ~ San Antonio River Authority

Hendrick Arnold is open to the public and currently has several trails available to explore. “Daniels Loop”, “Medina Trail”, and “Rachels Trail” are open at the park. Hendrick Arnold Nature […]

www.sariverauthority.org

Here's another man who few know about, and he graduated from Harvard

The Life and Legacy of Erastus Deaf Smith: Texas Revolutionary Hero

Explore the remarkable life of Erastus Deaf Smith, a key figure in the Texas Revolution, known for his bravery and contributions to the fight for Texas independence. Discover his early life, military service, and lasting legacy.

www.tshaonline.org

Erastus “Deaf” Smith

Erastus “Deaf” (pronounced “Deef”) Smith was an admirable person in “Texas Rising” and one in which the character of the individual may closely match the one por…

texoso66.com

 

[damYankee]

This man's Bio would make for a good movie

 

[RedRover]

Deaf Smith has been a lead and supporting character in several movies.

Deaf Smith played by Anthony Quinn in "Deaf Smith and Johnny Ears" (1973);

Ivy Pryce played Deaf Smith in 1986's "Houston: Legend of Texas" with Sam Elliott as Sam Houston.

Played by Michael Crabtree in "The Alamo" (2004):

TV mini-series Texas Rising (2015) portrayed by Jeffrey Dean Morgan...

 

[TallTallMan]

I'm still not sure just what the director had in mind when he ended the "Lawman" the way he did. It was a good movie up till the end.

Well, you were right about that ending. A big "?"

 

[Pollaco]

Well, you were right about that ending. A big "?"

All through the movie Lancaster's character was "Mr. Law + Order". Then he shoots an unarmed man in the back as he's running away. Still trying to make sense of it

 

[RedRover]

All through the movie Lancaster's character was "Mr. Law + Order". Then he shoots an unarmed man in the back as he's running away. Still trying to make sense of it

I took it to mean that while he was "Mr. Law and order" as mentioned, that the ending was a twist, showing he was a "law man" not for the public's sake, but for his own. Didn't care about relationships, people, or courts, etc., and revenged the law, using it as an excuse for merciless gun slinging. He did attempt to ride away, but once engaged was not a "good guy." So I took it that while the gang tried to ambush him in their way, he ambushed them in his, where they were fooled into thinking he was the good guy too.

 

[TallTallMan]

All through the movie Lancaster's character was "Mr. Law + Order". Then he shoots an unarmed man in the back as he's running away. Still trying to make sense of it

I took it to mean that while he was "Mr. Law and order" as mentioned, that the ending was a twist, showing he was a "law man" not for the public's sake, but for his own. Didn't care about relationships, people, or courts, etc., and revenged the law, using it as an excuse for merciless gun slinging. He did attempt to ride away, but once engaged was not a "good guy." So I took it that while the gang tried to ambush him in their way, he ambushed them in his, where they were fooled into thinking he was the good guy too.

He may have been spiting Sheree North's character.

 

[RedRover]

He may have been spiting Sheree North's character.

Sure. He was spiting the WHOLE town, the gang.... AND the movie's audience which was probably thinking this was a remake of "High Noon." He offered a fair trial, etc. suggesting he was for a fair fight, etc. But he was a back-shooter, and he would have back-shot ALL of them he came after, whether they stood their ground or not. Short of surrender in the time he gave them they were all dead men, fight or flee. He conveniently didn't tell them that. It becomes obvious at the end.

Recall Marshal Ryan's arrest of Ralph Waite for trying to back-shoot Lancaster's Maddox. "I hate back shooters," he says, calling Waite's character was a "shadow walker"... talking big around the protective authorities of the gun hands but "a back shooter inside." Ryan though he was on Maddox's side against the back shooters.

Recall the only townsman to aid Maddox in the end says "I wouldn't want to see you get it in the back." He too thinks Maddox is on the up and up.

But Maddox was the back shooter all along, the "shadow walker" hiding under the protection of the law.

 

[TallTallMan]

Sure. He was spiting the WHOLE town, the gang.... AND the movie's audience which was probably thinking this was a remake of "High Noon." He offered a fair trial, etc. suggesting he was for a fair fight, etc. But he was a back-shooter, and he would have back-shot ALL of them he came after, whether they stood their ground or not. Short of surrender in the time he gave them they were all dead men, fight or flee. He conveniently didn't tell them that. It becomes obvious at the end.

Recall Marshal Ryan's arrest of Ralph Waite for trying to back-shoot Lancaster's Maddox. "I hate back shooters," he says, calling Waite's character was a "shadow walker"... talking big around the protective authorities of the gun hands but "a back shooter inside." Ryan though he was on Maddox's side against the back shooters.

Recall the only townsman to aid Maddox in the end says "I wouldn't want to see you get it in the back." He too thinks Maddox is on the up and up.

But Maddox was the back shooter all along, the "shadow walker" hiding under the protection of the law.

While reading that, I just remembered that Maddox said a sheriff is no different than an outlaw except the badge. All your evidence makes me want to watch it again.

 

[RedRover]

While reading that, I just remembered that Maddox said a sheriff is no different than an outlaw except the badge. All your evidence makes me want to watch it again.

I have watched the movie a few times. Each time more convinced that Maddox is setting up confrontations to make himself look like a Gun hand rather than a "shadow walker"...(like a wild west "Chigurh" from No Country, posing as a cop) but he exposes himself in the end. Marshal Ryan (Robert Ryan) is the true protagonist in the film, along with the lady mentioned. Both want to believe Maddox is what he pretends to be, same with a couple other characters to a lesser degree. They consider him a bad man, but one of Principle... and law. They have character arcs. Maddox, at the last minute, literally declares he can't change, but then walks out as if to ride off, as if he's giving up the gun hand biz. BUT he's actually doing what he's always done; he's baiting them. HE knows Somebody will take a shot at him. That's all it took. If any of the other wanted men tried to run, he'd have backshot them too. And might have savored it the way he did with shooting down Hurd Price.

And Hurd Price, a character shown as something of a weasel. Well, at least he was no back shooter.

 

[MAJOR DUNDEE]

Watched tonight "Pony Express", starring Charlton Heston...it's just incredible the way they treat the real facts in that movie !
Buffalo Bill (C.Heston) kills "Yellow hand" in a single fight surrounded by hostiles indians almost 15 years before it really happened (during an engagement between U.S Cavalry and Indians), he organises -with the help of Wild Bill Hickok- the creation and developement of the "Pony Express", while he was just involved in it as a rider, while doing this, he succesfully empeach California to raise it's independance from the U.S and possibly join the Confederacy...and of course, they all use Colt revolvers model 1873 and Winchester rifles 92/94...

Once this said, let's be fair to the film, there's plenty of action, beautiful girls, great locations (it seems the movie was shot outside from California and it as unusual views), it's a very pleasant and entertaining Western.

Pony Express (1953) - Once Upon a Time in a Western

Buffalo Bill Cody (Charlton Heston) and Wild Bill Hickok (Forrest Tucker) are determined to link California to the United States with a new venture called the

onceuponatimeinawestern.com

 

[Kurtlg]

Watched tonight "Pony Express", starring Charlton Heston...it's just incredible the way they treat the real facts in that movie !
Buffalo Bill (C.Heston) kills "Yellow hand" in a single fight surrounded by hostiles indians almost 15 years before it really happened (during an engagement between U.S Cavalry and Indians), he organises -with the help of Wild Bill Hickok- the creation and developement of the "Pony Express", while he was just involved in it as a rider, while doing this, he succesfully empeach California to raise it's independance from the U.S and possibly join the Confederacy...and of course, they all use Colt revolvers model 1873 and Winchester rifles 92/94...

Once this said, let's be fair to the film, there's plenty of action, beautiful girls, great locations (it seems the movie was shot outside from California and it as unusual views), it's a very pleasant and entertaining Western.

Pony Express (1953) - Once Upon a Time in a Western

Buffalo Bill Cody (Charlton Heston) and Wild Bill Hickok (Forrest Tucker) are determined to link California to the United States with a new venture called the

onceuponatimeinawestern.com

Sounds about as accurate as "The Santa Fe Trail."

 

[TallTallMan]

Watched tonight "Pony Express", starring Charlton Heston...it's just incredible the way they treat the real facts in that movie !
Buffalo Bill (C.Heston) kills "Yellow hand" in a single fight surrounded by hostiles indians almost 15 years before it really happened (during an engagement between U.S Cavalry and Indians), he organises -with the help of Wild Bill Hickok- the creation and developement of the "Pony Express", while he was just involved in it as a rider, while doing this, he succesfully empeach California to raise it's independance from the U.S and possibly join the Confederacy...and of course, they all use Colt revolvers model 1873 and Winchester rifles 92/94...

Once this said, let's be fair to the film, there's plenty of action, beautiful girls, great locations (it seems the movie was shot outside from California and it as unusual views), it's a very pleasant and entertaining Western.

Pony Express (1953) - Once Upon a Time in a Western

Buffalo Bill Cody (Charlton Heston) and Wild Bill Hickok (Forrest Tucker) are determined to link California to the United States with a new venture called the

onceuponatimeinawestern.com

Sounds about as accurate as "The Santa Fe Trail."

I cannot believe I've never heard of this one! Heston, Tucker--plus beautiful girls?!