Vicksburg Bluffs

[Trooper180]

Thanks for the encouragement - I can't do this trip correctly without bringing the dog.

Several times we thought about bringing our German Shepherd and letting him run loose on the Champion Hill battlefield. I think you have a coon dog. Heck, I used to coon hunt several nights a week. It's probably been 15 years since I last hunted. I had a Redbone and a Walker. The Walker was best at treeing and the Redbone was best on the trail. Gave both of them away after I quit hunting.

Bruce

 

[Forrest]

Hello Forrest,

I would love to get a good shot of the bluffs farther east than what I did back in 1997. I have no idea who the Vicksburg fire chief is toda




Hello Again, Forrest,

I'm going back to Vicksburg in six weeks for the 153rd Battle of Champion Hill Anniversary event. During that time I want to walk out the woods at the Salient Works and visit more sites on Confederate Ave. and Iowa Ave. Didn't get to do that a week ago because of the rain. The old river bridge at Vicksburg is now closed to traffic. I'm wondering if pedestrian traffic is allowed. If it is I could walk out on the bridge and maybe get some shots of the bluffs. The camera I use has a pretty good zoom so maybe I can get some shots of the area you are interested in, below the depot and further south. Can't remember that last time I was on the old bridge. A retired trooper that I used to work with was a truck driver before he went to the highway patrol academy. The old bridge has a very narrow pass for vehicular traffic. Before crossing the bridge he would have to get out of his semi and fold in the left rear view mirror just in case he met another semi on the bridge. Hopefully the bridge is open to pedestrians so I can get what you need. I don't know anyone in the area that has a boat. In a boat I could get some good shots of the bluffs for you. I just lucked out back in 1997. The Vicksburg fire chief back then was born and raised just seven miles north of where I live here in Oklahoma. He took me out on the canal fronting Vicksburg in one of the VFD rescue boats. I should have taken more photos back then.

Bruce

Thanks Bruce. It's not a big deal - I am going to have to visit Vicksburg at some point (hopefully next Spring), so I will see what it looks like. Thanks for your offer.

 

[Forrest]

Several times we thought about bringing our German Shepherd and letting him run loose on the Champion Hill battlefield. I think you have a coon dog. Heck, I used to coon hunt several nights a week. It's probably been 15 years since I last hunted. I had a Redbone and a Walker. The Walker was best at treeing and the Redbone was best on the trail. Gave both of them away after I quit hunting.

Bruce

I got him when he was around one, and I think I'm the third or fourth owner. He had a tough life before me and I think he was probably a hunter at some point, but we're together for good.

 

[Tompre]

Hello Tompre,

In on break. Been in the veggie gardens all afternoon putting seeds and plants in the ground.

OK on the bridge. Never heard of the Over the Run. That's a shame the bridge is pretty well closed with the exception of the railroad. I read somewhere that one or more of the old bridge piers near the east bank are leaning. It might have been the newer bridge, read that a few years ago. Does Vicksburg still runs boat tours. I could get a shot of what is left of the bluffs. I'll check into that in May.

About it. Heading back out in the veggie gardens,

Bruce in Oklahoma

Here is a photo looking south from a point just north of Grove Street. You can see he bridges in the upper left center.

 

[Tompre]

Tompre: Which side of the Washington Hotel was the Whig office battery? Where was the Whig office battery from the buildings in the photo?

It was on the North side, and just down the hill. I have enclosed a map showing the battery, both Union and Confederate, positions and names. The Whig Office battery is S

 

[Tompre]

Found this info about the Whig Office battery,from the VNMP site.

8th Battalion Louisiana Heavy Artillery, Co. A Marker

NPS Photo

Company A

This unit was attached to the "Whig Office Battery" and commanded by Capt. P. Grandpre. The "Whig Office Battery" was near the old steamboat landing and mounted one 10-inch Columbiad gun and one 32-pdr smoothbore gun. [Refer to Edwin Bearss' The Vicksburg Campaign, Volume II, page 63.]

 

[Vicksburger]

Found this info about the Whig Office battery,from the VNMP site.

8th Battalion Louisiana Heavy Artillery, Co. A Marker

NPS Photo

Company A

This unit was attached to the "Whig Office Battery" and commanded by Capt. P. Grandpre. The "Whig Office Battery" was near the old steamboat landing and mounted one 10-inch Columbiad gun and one 32-pdr smoothbore gun. [Refer to Edwin Bearss' The Vicksburg Campaign, Volume II, page 63.]

Tompre: You mentioned that some felt the Whitworth rifled cannon used during the siege had been buried near the Lunette on the Baldwin's Ferry Road. What was their reason to think this?

 

[1stMS-Arty]

Found this info about the Whig Office battery,from the VNMP site.

8th Battalion Louisiana Heavy Artillery, Co. A Marker

NPS Photo

Company A

This unit was attached to the "Whig Office Battery" and commanded by Capt. P. Grandpre. The "Whig Office Battery" was near the old steamboat landing and mounted one 10-inch Columbiad gun and one 32-pdr smoothbore gun. [Refer to Edwin Bearss' The Vicksburg Campaign, Volume II, page 63.]

Where is that marker located Tompre?....I'm guessing maybe in the Pemberton circle???..where all the markers are for the campaign?

 

[Forrest]

I believe the Whig Office Battery marker is one of the ones that is not in the correct spot, although the battery might have extended for some distance and the marker might be at the outer edge of where the battery was. We discussed the location of the Whig Office Battery in another thread, and then again when Tompre joined the forum. Given the journal entries by a Confederate who was actually in that battery, and location descriptions in other sources (all have been discussed in this forum), I'm not going to be convinced that it was located other than at the "foot of Washington Street", which is where the 10 inch Columbiad was placed in April, 1863 (per Hugh Moss Diary), unless someone comes up with something very convincing that indicates otherwise.

There are a lot of bad 'battery location' maps out there - we could probably start a very interesting thread on incorrectly-mapped Vicksburg battery locations.

There is probably also some confusion over what a 'battery' is. There were rifle pits (gun pits), trenches, etc., all over the front of Vicksburg. Some of the better maps show these, and you will see that every approach by road was fortified in some manner;i.e-no army was going to land and march up any street without resistance (in this regard, the batteries were a total success). The areas actually considered to be 'batteries' along the waterfront immediately in front of the city were the Whig Office, Depot and Railroad. Additional gun pits and trenches were in the areas between these. Some of the maps show additional cannon emplacements around the Depot and Railroad batteries that had to be attached to one of these two batteries, but aren't marked on most maps as 'batteries' in their own rights. I believe I remember seeing some near the Whig Office battery as well.

 

[Yankeedave]

Hello Forrest, Famous last words I swear.

 

[Forrest]

Hello Forrest, Famous last words I swear.

Well, I don't mind being told I'm wrong, and even less-so having it shown to me;in fact, I type some of my "famous last words" as a challenge to others to do so. Given that in this instance we have nothing but questionable maps, diary entries and 'guesses' by men on boats trying to figure out where something is that was designed to be hidden, almost any solid evidence is going to be very interesting and fun to see. I don't think any of us have a personal stake in being right about things, so it is all good-natured discussion.

 

[1stMS-Arty]

We discussed the location of the Whig Office Battery in another thread, and then again when Tompre joined the forum.

Yes I know...but I am referring to the physical location of that particular marker....I don't believe it is anywhere near one of the battery sites....I'm thinking it is a marker located where the Pemberton statue and campaign markers are located inside the park.

 

[Tompre]

Where is that marker located Tompre?....I'm guessing maybe in the Pemberton circle???..where all the markers are for the campaign?

It is located at Lousiana Circle. Where the awidow Blakely is located.

 

[Tompre]

Tompre: You mentioned that some felt the Whitworth rifled cannon used during the siege had been buried near the Lunette on the Baldwin's Ferry Road. What was their reason to think this?

An Archeologist with the Mississippi Department of Archives and History told me. There were two Whitworth Rifles at one time. One was in General Baldwin's Brigade. General Baldwin states that the one in his sector burst early in the siege, but I think that it was only the breechblock that became disabled,forcing the gunners to use it as a muzzle loader.I know of two shells that were found,both to the South of Indiana Ave.

 

[Forrest]

Yes I know...but I am referring to the physical location of that particular marker....I don't believe it is anywhere near one of the battery sites....I'm thinking it is a marker located where the Pemberton statue and campaign markers are located inside the park.

I was just referring to the last time we discussed the 'Whig Office Battery' marker and the battery location. If I am remembering correctly, the location of the marker, the location where I believe it was, and the location where another member believes it was, are three separate locations.

This stuff is always amazing to me, as during the Summer of 1863 everyone in Vicksburg knew exactly where each of these batteries was located!

 

[1stMS-Arty]

It is located at Lousiana Circle. Where the awidow Blakely is located.

Okay this is what I have discovered...the metal plaque on the stone marker is at Louisiana Circle...

the red metal marker for Company A 8th La. Heavy Artillery is on the river front behind the Corps of Engineers museum...near the old steamboat landing.

the red marker on the VNMP site page for Company A (I think) is not at Louisiana Circle and it mentions nothing about any individual battery....so I still am curious about where this particular marker is................................
https://www.nps.gov/vick/learn/historyculture/8th-battalion-louisiana-heavy-artillery-company-a.htm

The red marker mentions nothing about the 'Whig Office' battery...and in fact neither does the Company A marker.....

 

[Tompre]

Okay this is what I have discovered...the metal plaque on the stone marker is at Louisiana Circle...

the red metal marker for Company A 8th La. Heavy Artillery is on the river front behind the Corps of Engineers museum...near the old steamboat landing.

View attachment 96777
View attachment 96778
the red marker on the VNMP site page for Company A (I think) is not at Louisiana Circle and it mentions nothing about any individual battery....so I still am curious about where this particular marker is................................
https://www.nps.gov/vick/learn/historyculture/8th-battalion-louisiana-heavy-artillery-company-a.htm

View attachment 96779 View attachment 96780
View attachment 96781
The red marker mentions nothing about the 'Whig Office' battery...and in fact neither does the Company A marker.....

Not the red marker says nothing about the Whig Office battery. But the comment on the page beside the plaque which you posted,says the Whig battery as attached to this unit. That is according to Ed Bearess. It may be that company A had more than one gun,and were in different places. I will find out where the plaque is located. You have to realize that the plaque in the parking lot of the Corps of Engineers museum is a new marker,the other being taken during the WWII scrap drives. A lot of these plaques were placed in preparation for the 150th Anniversary. That area a during the war was the Vicksburg Foundry, aka,AB Reading foundry. But even Ed Bearess could be in error.

 

[1stMS-Arty]

I was just referring to the last time we discussed the 'Whig Office Battery' marker and the battery location. If I am remembering correctly, the location of the marker, the location where I believe it was, and the location where another member believes it was, are three separate locations.

This stuff is always amazing to me, as during the Summer of 1863 everyone in Vicksburg knew exactly where each of these batteries was located!

Yes it is amazing....and somewhat confusing considering there doesn't appear to be as much attention or attempt to accurately mark the river batteries....in some cases anyway.

here is another photo of the area where the Company A marker is located...you can see the corner of the marker in the lower right corner and the copula of the Courthouse in the upper background.....

 

[1stMS-Arty]

Not the red marker says nothing about the Whig Office battery. But the comment on the page beside the plaque which you posted,says the Whig battery as attached to this unit. That is according to Ed Bearess. It may be that company A had more than one gun,and were in different places. I will find out where the plaque is located.

okay I found it....it is in Pemberton Circle on the main park...

 

[Tompre]

Yes it is amazing....and somewhat confusing considering there doesn't appear to be as much attention or attempt to accurately mark the river batteries....in some cases anyway.

here is another photo of the area where the Company A marker is located...you can see the corner of the marker in the lower right corner and the copula of the Courthouse in the upper background.....
View attachment 96787

This is in the vicinity of Jackson and Washington Streets, the Washington Hotel was two blocks south of here,at Washington and China. Bearess said there were two guns in the Whig Office battery, but only one is on the plaque,a 10 inch, so it might be that the 32 pounder was at the Whig Office Two blocks south of here. Guns in batteries and under the same company were separated quite often.