Vicksburg Bluffs

[Tompre]

I was recently reviewing some photos I took in 2008 and found this:
View attachment 116241
Apologies for being out of focus. This was posted above the front door of the pharmacy across the street from the gun. If this is correct then the Dahlgren gun was not a "CSA" gun. There were two 9 inch Dahlgren's brought ashore from the Tuscumbia.

Personally I believe it was in Battery McPherson (US) on the old Jackson Rd. during the siege....

View attachment 116244

View attachment 116245

Welcome to another Vicksburg mystery. Joe Gerache retired in 1997 and Fred's Dollar store took over the pharmacy and building. They were the ones who it up this flyer, and I know the lady they got the info from. Joe always said that it was a CS Dahlgren, which I have not been able to confirm. But I do believe that it was in the Lum House battery. The Lawyer's son who represented Joe in the acquisition of the cannon, has the history on it. The Tuscumbia only had 5 guns, 2-9 inch, and 3-11 inch. And she was in action at Vicksburg during the siege, and then went to Memphis after the siege for repairs. Seems to me that if she had loaned 2 guns, that she would have wanted them back after the siege.

 

[Vicksburger]

Thanks a lot !

I started doing the math, and realized that I haven't spent any time at the Mississippi monument since about 2006 or 2007.

Seems like last week . . . but that's been ten years ago.

Where have the years gone ?

Seriously, thanks again @1stMS-Arty !

It seems to me, and I'm doing this without looking at my notes like I should before I comment, but seems to me I have seen or read about Confederate earthworks ( or markers) ( or at least seen some indication on some map) around or behind the Miss. Monument. But I have never walked it, perhaps because too grown up with weeds,etc. But have you ever looked for any behind/around that monument? (And I could have the wrong monument in mind)

 

[Vicksburger]

Your quite welcome...I love all this nerdy Vicksburg/artillery stuff

I love it too and my idea of heaven would be to hear Trailhead Graphics are coming out with a map of all monuments on the Vicksburg NMP! (Maybe someday) Think: Cubs.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

But have you ever looked for any behind/around that monument? (And I could have the wrong monument in mind)

I was referring to the Mississippi Monument on Confederate Avenue.

Apparently the National Park Service has made some changes since the last time I walked around this monument back in 2006/2007.

 

[Yankeedave]

Did anyone say if the carriage is correct?

 

[1stMS-Arty]

Welcome to another Vicksburg mystery. Joe Gerache retired in 1997 and Fred's Dollar store took over the pharmacy and building. They were the ones who it up this flyer, and I know the lady they got the info from. Joe always said that it was a CS Dahlgren, which I have not been able to confirm. But I do believe that it was in the Lum House battery. The Lawyer's son who represented Joe in the acquisition of the cannon, has the history on it. The Tuscumbia only had 5 guns, 2-9 inch, and 3-11 inch. And she was in action at Vicksburg during the siege, and then went to Memphis after the siege for repairs. Seems to me that if she had loaned 2 guns, that she would have wanted them back after the siege.

You may be right about it being in the "Lum House" battery since that was after the siege and apparently they used Federal and captured Confederate guns in these positions.

I believe that the Tuscumbia did indeed leave her two 9 inch Dahlgren's behind. ORN series II vol 1 page 227 lists the Tuscumbia as having only three 11 inch guns after June 5, 1863 which is about when she turned the guns over to the army at Warrenton.

 

[1stMS-Arty]

Did anyone say if the carriage is correct?

No I don't think that is a correct carriage although I'm not sure how the Confederates would have mounted it...but it was probably similar to something like the mount used on the Brooke rifle, Whig Office or the rifled 32...just my opinion and guess..

 

[Tompre]

You may be right about it being in the "Lum House" battery since that was after the siege and apparently they used Federal and captured Confederate guns in these positions.

I believe that the Tuscumbia did indeed leave her two 9 inch Dahlgren's behind. ORN series II vol 1 page 227 lists the Tuscumbia as having only three 11 inch guns after June 5, 1863 which is about when she turned the guns over to the army at Warrenton.
View attachment 116409

According to the book The Big Guns, both of the 9 inch Dahlgrens from the Tuscumbia are located in the VNMP. So this gun may indeed be a CS gun.

 

[1stMS-Arty]

View attachment 116493 According to the book The Big Guns, both of the 9 inch Dahlgrens from the Tuscumbia are located in the VNMP. So this gun may indeed be a CS gun.

Well i'll be dadgum.....i was looking at buying a copy of that but the cheapest one i found was 175 bucks.......
The downtown gun certainly is a mystery then....but it sure looks like a Union manufactured gun...which means if it was Confederate it would have had to have been captured from a Union vessel.....maybe the Indianola?? Which had two 9 inch Dahlgrens....but how the heck did it get to Vicksburg?

Two of the Indianola's guns (9 inch and 11 inch Dahlgrens) ended up on the CSS Missouri, built in Shreveport, La.

Which leaves another two of the same make and caliber unaccounted for. I'm thinking one or two of those guns was in Ft. DeRussy on Red River, La.

guess its back to the OR's....

Mystery indeed......................

 

[Tompre]

Well i'll be dadgum.....i was looking at buying a copy of that but the cheapest one i found was 175 bucks.......
The downtown gun certainly is a mystery then....but it sure looks like a Union manufactured gun...which means if it was Confederate it would have had to have been captured from a Union vessel.....maybe the Indianola?? Which had two 9 inch Dahlgrens....but how the heck did it get to Vicksburg?

Two of the Indianola's guns (9 inch and 11 inch Dahlgrens) ended up on the CSS Missouri, built in Shreveport, La.

Which leaves another two of the same make and caliber unaccounted for. I'm thinking one or two of those guns was in Ft. DeRussy on Red River, La.

guess its back to the OR's....

Mystery indeed......................

I got mine at the bookstore in the VNMP. My Wife worked there at one time and it was damaged,so I got it free. I also got a copy of Warren Ripley's book Artillery and Ammunition of the Civil War, free. But now I can't find it. I think the Bookstore still sells them, and they aren't very expensive.

 

[1stMS-Arty]

I got mine at the bookstore in the VNMP. My Wife worked there at one time and it was damaged,so I got it free. I also got a copy of Warren Ripley's book Artillery and Ammunition of the Civil War, free. But now I can't find it. I think the Bookstore still sells them, and they aren't very expensive.

I got my copy of Ripley's years ago at the park...just found a used copy of Big Guns on ebay for 79 bucks which is the cheapest I have seen it.

Meanwhile I noticed that there are two additional 9 inch Dahlgrens attributed to Vicksburg NMP....

and while reviewing photos again I came across this photo of a 9 inch Dahlgren at the entrance to the visitor's center...

zooming in on the breech seems to show "F.P. no 703". the FP means Fort Pitt I believe...place of manufacture...which means it it one of the Sacketts Harbor guns and not a Tuscumbia gun....

I only found the initials of the inspector of the gun from Battery McPherson...JMB...

haven't been able to distinguish any markings from photographs on the downtown gun....

 

[1stMS-Arty]

Are the batteries in this photo? If not, which direction are they? Interesting thread everyone!
View attachment 97242
Vicksburg, Mississippi - LOC #35296

I think yes at least one of em anyway....sorry for the crude outline but basically that is the lower area of the intersection of Jackson and Washington streets...

which is right where there is a marker for one of the batteries today.....except I believe the battery was further up the hill closer to Washington street.

I also believe that the tinclad gunboat in this photographed was 'posed' directly opposite of this particular battery....you can't really see it well but it basically would be in the frame made by some of the rigging behind the smokestacks...

 

[Mike Serpa]

I think yes at least one of em anyway....sorry for the crude outline but basically that is the lower area of the intersection of Jackson and Washington streets...
View attachment 118019
which is right where there is a marker for one of the batteries today.....except I believe the battery was further up the hill closer to Washington street.
View attachment 118022
I also believe that the tinclad gunboat in this photographed was 'posed' directly opposite of this particular battery....you can't really see it well but it basically would be in the frame made by some of the rigging behind the smokestacks...
View attachment 118025

Thanks for this.

 

[Forrest]

Yes, Washington and Jackson. I hate seeing images of that marker, as it's a modern mistake. It happens, but we have to be careful about accepting such things as historically accurate, just because they are physical and 'official'. The other understandable problem is the results of "word of mouth" from locals, handed down with various mistakes compounded gradually over 150 years.

 

[Tompre]

Yes, Washington and Jackson. I hate seeing images of that marker, as it's a modern mistake. It happens, but we have to be careful about accepting such things as historically accurate, just because they are physical and 'official'. The other understandable problem is the results of "word of mouth" from locals, handed down with various mistakes compounded gradually over 150 years.[

I think yes at least one of em anyway....sorry for the crude outline but basically that is the lower area of the intersection of Jackson and Washington streets...
View attachment 118019
which is right where there is a marker for one of the batteries today.....except I believe the battery was further up the hill closer to Washington street.
View attachment 118022
I also believe that the tinclad gunboat in this photographed was 'posed' directly opposite of this particular battery....you can't really see it well but it basically would be in the frame made by some of the rigging behind the smokestacks...
View attachment 118025

because of the lack of available space outside the Park proper,a number of Markers are placed in the general area of the batteries and trenches. Many times it is impossible to place them at the exact spot.

 

[Forrest]

True, but most such markers have a comment on them such as: "there was a battery located xx feet in such and such direction from this marker". The one in question states "in this location", which is false.

 

[1stMS-Arty]

I also believe the same battery is visible in this photograph from "Photographic History of the Civil War"

 

[Forrest]

I also believe the same battery is visible in this photograph from "Photographic History of the Civil War"
View attachment 118572
View attachment 118573

That is one of my favorite Vicksburg photos, but my version is much rougher - thanks for posting!

It's impossible to tell what you are looking at in terms of the actual battery that held the Columbiad - there were trenches dug all over that area.

 

[Forrest]

I think you are correct about your battery location. Here is a comparison to another 1863 Vicksburg photo, taken after the siege. Both show 'the foot of' Jackson street, where the Whig Office Battery (and its Columbiad emplacement) were located. The water level is a little higher in the second photo:

 

[Vicksburger]

I think you are correct about your battery location. Here is a comparison to another 1863 Vicksburg photo, taken after the siege. Both show 'the foot of' Jackson street, where the Whig Office Battery (and its Columbiad emplacement) were located. The water level is a little higher in the second photo:

View attachment 119194

Have you got an actual cannon in the red box on the right photo? Looks like it?