Vicksburg Bluffs

[Forrest]

Sorry didn't mean to upset you, but I'm from Vicksburg
,and I'm a Civil War historian,haveing managed the Grand Gulf Military Park,the southernmost of the Vicksburg defences
and the Port Gibson battlefield. In that capacity I have had access to much more material than most people have. You're right, the Depot battery was in the area of the Convention Center parking lot. Grant stayed in the Lum home, which was located on the east side of Washington Street there is a plaque located there now. There was a large hill located there,and although Grant promised the Lums that the home would be alright,the occupation forces tore it down and built a battery on the site. There is no pictures of it, only a drawing. The information for Whistling Dick came from Col Higgins report from the ORs here is his exact words:
On the 28th, the 18-pounder rifled gun was sent to the rear lines, in charge of Capt. L. B. Haynes' company (E), First Regiment Louisiana Artillery.
The Whig Office was located on China Street, I posted a picture of that street.

You didn't upset me at all. As stated, I just wanted to correct your erroneous assertions.

Also, just as the Depot Battery was not located IN the train depot, the Whig Office Battery was not located IN the Whig Office - it was located nearby at the base of Washington Street. Period maps show it located there, and the diary of Hugh Moss corroborates that location: "April 25 - We took charge of a ten-inch Columbiad at the foot of Washington street." Moss was in Ogden's 8th LA HVY ART which manned the Whig Office Battery, as well as the Depot Battery.

 

[James N.]

This is my best attempt at guesstimating where the rifle pits, etc, were located for the 'Depot Battery' ...Grant's Headquarters is on the hill at the extreme right, which is also where the battery containing 'Whistling Dick' was located.

Any help in clarifying this would be greatly appreciated.

This probably won't really be of much help, but there are several positions of Confederate batteries marked with plaques in downtown Vicksburg; although this isn't part of the park, they're the exact same type of metal plaques. Here's one that's even more obvious:

Also, though not Whistling Dick (which I think may no longer exist), the Widow Blakely is on display in the Louisiana Circle (between downtown and the Mississippi River Bridge and a part of the park) even though as the plaque states, this was not her actual position during the siege:

 

[Tompre]

You didn't upset me at all. As stated, I just wanted to correct your erroneous assertions.

Also, just as the Depot Battery was not located IN the train depot, the Whig Office Battery was not located IN the Whig Office - it was located nearby at the base of Washington Street. Period maps show it located there, and the diary of Hugh Moss corroborates that location: "April 25 - We took charge of a ten-inch Columbiad at the foot of Washington street." Moss was in Ogden's 8th LA HVY ART which manned the Whig Office Battery, as well as the Depot Battery.

This is a print of the Washington Hotel,see the dirt next to it,this is where the Whig office battery was. There was a battery at the foot of Washington street,but it wasn't the Whig Office battery. I will go down and take a picture of the marker.

 

[Forrest]

here is a portion of one of the maps that was used in the determination of the layout of the Park. Not a good photograph,but you can make out on the lower part where it reads rifled 18 pounder, whistling dick. This is where it was moved after being repaired.

Interesting, thanks. My primary interest is Ogden's two batteries. The Railroad Battery fell under Beltzhoover's 1st LA HVY ART command, so I haven't researched Whistling Dick much. My curiosity about the Railroad Battery's location stems from it's proximity to the Depot Battery. My g-g-grandfather, who was stationed at the Depot Battery, mentioned Whistling Dick in a letter, so I was curious where the battery was located - the maps that I've seen do not do a very good job of describing its location. If you have documentation showing that it was located near Belmont, I would be curious to see it.

 

[Tompre]

Have you seen this site? It has a lot of info on the river batteries.http://www.civilwaralbum.com/vicksburg/riverbatteries1.htm

 

[Tompre]

The problem with Whistling Dick,is that the Confederates and Union may not be talking about the same gun.

 

[Forrest]

This is a print of the Washington Hotel,see the dirt next to it,this is where the Whig office battery was. There was a battery at the foot of Washington street,but it wasn't the Whig Office battery. I will go down and take a picture of the marker.

Okay, thanks for your opinion.

 

[Forrest]

This probably won't really be of much help, but there are several positions of Confederate batteries marked with plaques in downtown Vicksburg; although this isn't part of the park, they're the exact same type of metal plaques.

Thanks. I'm wondering if these plaques are all exactly accurate - it seems like we've found at least one that was in the wrong place. Also, we have to keep in mind that there were trenches and rifle pits all over the city - the river batteries served the dual purpose of preventing Union boats from passing the city (which they generally failed at), but also were there to prevent a direct assault on the city front, which they accomplished. It's easy to confuse some of the many rifle pits and trenches for possible cannon locations.

 

[Forrest]

The problem with Whistling Dick,is that the Confederates and Union may not be talking about the same gun.

Yes, definitely. I could be wrong, but I think the one thing we know for certain is that Whistling Dick was located in the Railroad Battery, which was off Washington Street. Where it ended up is all speculation, but Championhilz' co-authored book has some great information about it.

If you have information that gives an exact location of that Battery, please post. I will be visiting Vicksburg either this Spring or next Spring, and would like to at least visit the area since I'll be nearby at the Depot Battery location.

 

[Tompre]

The position tablets for the batteries downtown are new,being placed as close as possible to the original location in the days before the 150th Anniversary. The originals were destroyed during the scrap drives of WWII. A number of cannon went that way also.

 

[jack1492]

All Whitworth's of every size whistled when fired, thus the confusion as to which was actually Whistling Dick.

 

[Tompre]

Interesting, thanks. My primary interest is Ogden's two batteries. The Railroad Battery fell under Beltzhoover's 1st LA HVY ART command, so I haven't researched Whistling Dick much. My curiosity about the Railroad Battery's location stems from it's proximity to the Depot Battery. My g-g-grandfather, who was stationed at the Depot Battery, mentioned Whistling Dick in a letter, so I was curious where the battery was located - the maps that I've seen do not do a very good job of describing its location. If you have documentation showing that it was located near Belmont, I would be curious to see it.

youve probably seen this map,it shows Whistling Dick on Washington Street,Belmont Street is not shown,but it runs along side the railroad. The depot battery is shown as being to the lower right,and another battery to the lower left. This map is one of the ones used by the NPS in determining the troop,and artillery positions.

 

[Tompre]

Thanks Tompre. Yes good to have a real Vicksburger to help with questions. So if I understand, the Dahlgren displayed came from the Whig Office battery?
Also, slightly off topic, but maybe you can answer: Is the Salient Work on Halls Ferry road still there? Hidden by brush/trees? The photo posted below shows the Salient work and Lauman's third parallel and approach trench. There was at one time ( 1900 or so) (apparently) a big marker for the salient work, not there now (?) Thanks for any input.View attachment 92587

Sorry,I didn't make myself clear. Joe Gerache's Dahlgren came from a Union battery site that was constructed after the siege on the site of the Lum home.

 

[Forrest]

youve probably seen this map,it shows Whistling Dick on Washington Street,Belmont Street is not shown,but it runs along side the railroad. The depot battery is shown as being to the lower right,and another battery to the lower left. This map is one of the ones used by the NPS in determining the troop,and artillery positions.

Yes (it's posted in a related thread that I believe you have also posted in), and if I remember correctly, that map's location is pretty much exactly where I have 'Whistling Dick's battery located (as opposed to the east side of Washington St.) - maybe a little further north. I also have a number of modern photos of that area (from Google Maps) - if you go across Depot St from just above Mulberry, there are 1-2 buildings against the bluff, and then a bit further on (on Google Maps you have to approach from further southwest) you can look up and see a mess of trees that would be south of those buildings. Whistling Dick's battery should have been up there, just west of Washington St. I'm not positive about any of this, but from the maps I've studied, as well as descriptions of the battery, it makes the most sense (to me). Again, it's not a battery I'm all that concerned about, but it's fascinating.

 

[Tompre]

Yes,I agree, if I posted it was East of Washington Street,I didn't mean to. I drove by the site today. Unfortunately there is no marker there, I cannot understand the NPS thinking on this. They pick and chose which markers to replace apparently. There used to be a Service Station on Washington Street close to the battery location called Whistling Dick service station. If I can the picture I'll post it.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Although this has already been posted, there's an excellent high resolution view of Lt. L A Wrotnowski's 1863 View of Vicksburg and plan of Canal, Fortifications & vicinity at this link:
http://www.marilynlee.org/cra.php?q=vicksburg-national-military-park-monuments

 

[Tompre]

Forrest, if you do get to Vicksburg, you might see if you can ascertain whether the Confederate Salient Work on Hall's Ferry Road is still there or not, if it interests you. There is a good thread where Alan Polk ( via Gen. Parker Hills) and 1st MS Arty contributed some pictures, the name of the thread is: "Vicksburg Photos," started in 2013. Terry Winschell says it is not there, but I think it is just grown up in trees and brush. It is owned by the City of Vicksburg and now neglected.

I took some photos today and posted them to a new thread

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

The thread Tompre created is at:
http://civilwartalk.com/threads/salient-works-pictures.121859/#post-1282617

 

[Forrest]

The thread Tompre created is at:
http://civilwartalk.com/threads/salient-works-pictures.121859/#post-1282617

This is all very much appreciated. I'm still working out the details, but looks like a cross-country trip from Tacoma, WA, through Vicksburg with my coonhound, sometime this June/July. Just need to find dog boarding while I'm doing library research. The good thing is that black and tan coonhounds are understood a bit better in Mississippi than they are in Washington State

 

[Tompre]

This is all very much appreciated. I'm still working out the details, but looks like a cross-country trip from Tacoma, WA, through Vicksburg with my coonhound, sometime this June/July. Just need to find dog boarding while I'm doing library research. The good thing is that black and tan coonhounds are understood a bit better in Mississippi than they are in Washington State

Coonhounds are big here. I have a friend with one. You won't have any trouble finding boarding. Gonna be real hot. We will be having a living history at The Old Courthouse in June, reenactor portraying famous people of the war.