Vicksburg Bluffs

[Patrick H]

I am truly enjoying this thread, so thanks for launching it. That was some VERY tortured bend in the river in front of Vicksburg back in the day, wasn't it? I clearly see the old path of the river from Google satellite view. Centennial lake occupies space once owned by the Mississippi itself.

Back here on the Missouri where I live, we don't have many of those sharp bends any more. The river has cut some of them off of its own accord and the Corps of Engineers has cut others off. I believe I've read that the Missouri is 50 miles shorter between Kansas City and St. Louis than it was 100 years ago. I'm sure similar things could be said about the Mississippi.

I could go on about the relative merits or demerits of channelizing rivers, but that's modern politics....

 

[1stMS-Arty]

Ah....correct. Apparently Battery Sherman was guarding the Jackson Road approach to the city....but where was it exactly?
http://oldcourthouse.org/photos/civil-war-tour/
And I wonder if there are any maps of the post siege Federal lines and forts...haven't ever seen one.

well heck i think i just answered my own question..........
http://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/96d82eab-ce2f-0597-e040-e00a180624b3

 

[millerpsc]

Did confederates ever attempt to recapture Vicksburg? Or at least plan to?

 

[1stMS-Arty]

Did confederates ever attempt to recapture Vicksburg? Or at least plan to?

I don't think so...but the Yankees were taking no chances since they shortened the line of defense and kept it manned throughout the war.

 

[Forrest]

Fabulous pictures! The one that shows the RR Depot is particularly interesting, as I should be able to use it to get a good idea of what the environment of the battery below it was like. Thanks!

By any chance, do you have any larger versions of that photo? (NEVERMIND - I found a ginormous one!)

 

[1stMS-Arty]

So I'm looking at the map of the Federal lines after they shortened the defenses and I find what I believe to be where Battery Sherman was located. That part of the road is now called Martin Luther King where it used to be the Jackson Road. The batteries are numbered in the legend of the map and #9 is supposed to be Battery Sherman. So then i go to google maps and find the spot where it should have been....

Next step is of course google street view.......and holy cow.......
Its still there.......

 

[Forrest]

Three photographs of Union warships in front of Vicksburg post siege....

The bottom two photos show are great for showing the bluffs - you can see the stilts on the bottom of the building at the far right in both photos and the water appears to nearing it's high point in the first photo.

Thanks for posting these - this was what I was looking for.

 

[1stMS-Arty]

Fabulous pictures! The one that shows the RR Depot is particularly interesting, as I should be able to use it to get a good idea of what the environment of the battery below it was like. Thanks!

By any chance, do you have any larger versions of that photo?

I think I have a higher resolution picture of the USS Benton picture....if i can find it...

 

[Forrest]

http://www.naviearmatori.net/albums/userpics/15767/1392566002.jpg

 

[millerpsc]

That would make sense in manning it but I'm surprised the confederates didn't try to retake it especially since they had no supply lines from Texas and the beef there.

 

[Vicksburger]

So I'm looking at the map of the Federal lines after they shortened the defenses and I find what I believe to be where Battery Sherman was located. That part of the road is now called Martin Luther King where it used to be the Jackson Road. The batteries are numbered in the legend of the map and #9 is supposed to be Battery Sherman. So then i go to google maps and find the spot where it should have been....
View attachment 89995
Next step is of course google street view.......and holy cow.......
Its still there.......
View attachment 89996

WOW, holy cow is right! Another must see when I get back to Vicksburg!

 

[Vicksburger]

http://www.naviearmatori.net/albums/userpics/15767/1392566002.jpg

Nice resolution on this picture. Can anybody see any of the old Confederate river batteries?

 

[Vicksburger]

So I'm looking at the map of the Federal lines after they shortened the defenses and I find what I believe to be where Battery Sherman was located. That part of the road is now called Martin Luther King where it used to be the Jackson Road. The batteries are numbered in the legend of the map and #9 is supposed to be Battery Sherman. So then i go to google maps and find the spot where it should have been....
View attachment 89995
Next step is of course google street view.......and holy cow.......
Its still there.......
View attachment 89996

Interesting because this is the same area I looked for, in 2012, the "Rock House" where Grant visited Pemberton after the surrender. Terry Winschel said the actual house is gone, not surprising, but that the house that stands on it's spot was built using some architectural features/ parts of the old Rock House. It was on old Openwood road, now MLK Drive, and he gave me directions. But I never found what he was referring to, I never got out to ask directions, but I never guessed that I was near old Federal Battery Sherman! This has been an enlightening thread!

 

[Forrest]

Nice resolution on this picture. Can anybody see any of the old Confederate river batteries?

I can't see them, but I believe it runs something like this. It runs just above the road at the top of the bluff, covering the block below the Depot, and the block to the left of that one. I can see the road that runs down from the left side of the Depot, but I can't make out the two on either side, which are basically the left and right boundaries of the Depot Battery's rifle pits.

I believe the Columbiad should be at the far right of the red line.

 

[Forrest]

This might be better - only shows where I think the line of pits in the block directly below the Depot would be (the line would extend to the left of the photo by an equal amount (one block, ending at a structure), and there would also have been one position on the right side, just on the other side of the road - the modern 'depot battery' plaque is just to the right of the mast, where the red dotted line ends). I know from a journal entry that Depot Battery artillerists were also set up as pickets at the street corners.

 

[Forrest]

Here's the best engraving I've been able to find that shows the old Depot - the Battery was below those houses, extending to the road on the right with another position just on the right side of the road. The Castle is in the background.

It's interesting that no sign of batteries or pits are shown in the engraving, even though there were works all along the ridge below the depot, and also above and to the right. I also have read that they put cannon in the actual Depot, and also that these batteries were 'masked'. Perhaps the Union never figured out exactly where they were, although that seems unlikely. In any case, the artist couldn't find them.

 

[1stMS-Arty]

Here's the best engraving I've been able to find that shows the old Depot - the Battery was below those houses, extending to the road on the right with another position just on the right side of the road. The Castle is in the background.

It's interesting that no sign of batteries or pits are shown in the engraving, even though there were works all along the ridge below the depot, and also above and to the right. I also have read that they put cannon in the actual Depot, and also that these batteries were 'masked'. Perhaps the Union never figured out exactly where they were, although that seems unlikely. In any case, the artist couldn't find them.

View attachment 90127

Interesting...the boat appears to be going upstream...i wonder what incident that is supposed to depict?

 

[Forrest]

It's from a March 13, 1863 Harper's engraving: 'Our Masked Batteries Shelling Vicksburg'.

 

[Forrest]

I can't see them, but I believe it runs something like this. It runs just above the road at the top of the bluff, covering the block below the Depot, and the block to the left of that one. I can see the road that runs down from the left side of the Depot, but I can't make out the two on either side, which are basically the left and right boundaries of the Depot Battery's rifle pits.

I believe the Columbiad should be at the far right of the red line.

View attachment 90012

I've looked at the original photo for hours, comparing it to battery/trench locations in period maps as well. If you look at how the red line follows Pearl street, going through the houses at the right, I believe the batteries,etc are just behind those houses. I was initially confused about this, as it would restrict the line of sight, but that entire block is not only on the edge of the bluff, but is still very steep going up from Pearl to the the Depot and on through to the rail yard on the other side of the Depot, where it flattens out. The rail yard is the only flat space in that area, as the terrain angles up again to Washington Street. The Depot itself is much taller on the River side, than on the rail yard side - this can be seen in another photo of the Depot and rail yard that was taken from the southeast. Given all that, the houses could provide some masking, but the guns could still probably fire over them, so best of both worlds. I would love to hear opinions, as this is all speculation.

 

[DixieRifles]

If you want to understand the rise and fall of the Mississippi River, there is a great place to see this. The Waterways Experment Station studies the river for the Corps of Engineers. And it is located right there in Vicksburg. They have modeled the complete Mississippi River basin and can simulate any season or event.
Most of the locals know about the Waterways Experment Station and include a tour during their visit. However, this model only covered 600 river miles. The Corps needed to enlarge the model and built one in Clinton, MS, that covers 200 acres. It is no longer used but this link says it is still open to the public.

Link: