Uniform Identification

[Bloody7th]

Hello CW Talk -

I am NOT a CW uniform expert, and wondering what you can tell me about the below image. What is he wearing, and can it be given a time frame?

This guy served in both armies - initially with the 8th Virginia (CSA) in 1861 and then later with the 166th Penn, 61st Penn and finally the 7th New Hampshire in 1864.

Appreciate your help!

 

[major bill]

My first impression is a Federal uniform.

 

[captaindrew]

Looks like a standard Federal frock coat.

 

[captaindrew]

Oh and welcome to the forum @Bloody7th

 

[Bloody7th]

Looks like a standard Federal frock coat.

I suspected that his uniform is too generic to really provide any other insights....

 

[gunny]

I am by no means sure, but most regulation Federal frock coats had nine buttons - this one appears to have eight. Uniformity was found to a much lesser degree in the Confederate army. Not to be sure, but may be early war Confederate frock coat?

 

[captaindrew]

I am by no means sure, but most regulation Federal frock coats had nine buttons - this one appears to have eight. Uniformity was found to a much lesser degree in the Confederate army. Not to be sure, but may be early war Confederate frock coat?

Good catch, I didn't count the buttons at first glance

 

[UCVRelics]

I am by no means sure, but most regulation Federal frock coats had nine buttons - this one appears to have eight.

The ninth one is in front of his left index finger. and was not gold washed by the photo studio. Standard 9 button union frock coat

 

[major bill]

The ninth one is in front of his left index finger. and was not gold washed by the photo studio. Standard 9 button union frock coat

I counted the buttom and got 8 button and was thinking the same thing about the bottom button being undone.

 

[UCVRelics]

I'm not sure that its the 9th one but there is another above the yellow arrow.

 

[gunny]

I'm not sure that its the 9th one but there is another above the yellow arrow.
View attachment 170521

I think you might be mistaken. That could easily be his thumb tucked under his fist. Plus, that would be way too far down the facing to be a button unless there were ten or more. What think?

 

[gunny]

from: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/28429041375950433/

Looks almost identical to this North Carolina frock. Same trim on collar, height of collar, eight buttons, etc.

 

[UCVRelics]

I think there were more than 10 on this coat. This is a button further down the coat as you can see the edge trim and the button. It just wasn't gold washed as the other. There might be as many as 12 buttons on this coat.

 

[Hussar Yeomanry]

from: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/28429041375950433/

Looks almost identical to this North Carolina frock. Same trim on collar, height of collar, eight buttons, etc.

Good match except couldn't there also be a button issue here in as much as one may be covered by the belt plate? Though I agree that while there may be a ninth button on the original photo it is not whatever UCVrelic has pointed at. There is something at that point but it is in the wrong place for the ninth button.

EDIT in light of previous post that came in before I posted. It certainly could be button ten (eleven) or indeed twelve. That would work. Nine however does not for me. Sorry.

 

[UCVRelics]

Really I don't see anything military on this coat No Shoulder Boards, No Collar Rank or even cuffs. Just sayin

 

[1867crete]

It appears to have some piping on the collar and with the gold tinted buttons, i would say federal frock

 

[gunny]

I think there were more than 10 on this coat. This is a button further down the coat as you can see the edge trim and the button. It just wasn't gold washed as the other. There might be as many as 12 buttons on this coat.
View attachment 170531 View attachment 170532

Or that might be somthing more dubious judging from the smirk on his face! LOL

 

[UCVRelics]

The guys name is Raphael Gulliani and there no Gulliani or the spelling Guliani as in Major Rudy in Fold3 CW service records.

 

[UCVRelics]

This guy served in both armies - initially with the 8th Virginia (CSA) in 1861 and then later with the 166th Penn, 61st Penn and finally the 7th New Hampshire in 1864.

How do you know that he fought with the 8th Va CSA and The Penn units?

 

[Bloody7th]

How do you know that he fought with the 8th Va CSA and The Penn units?

It's a long bizarre story that will be going into a book I'm writing.

This guy was quite a character. I knew about his federal service (he used at least two aliases that I know of) and then someone on ancestry contacted me saying they had his photo and some post-war photos.

He went into the 8th Virginia as a substitute in December 1861 and was discharged in August of 1862 in Richmond. That's when he went north.

He apparently stayed in contact with the Virginia man he substituted for and sent him this daguerreotype and a couple of letters. Those have been passed down through the family.

After the war he served in the 45th US and the 14th US out west.