Forrest The Brothers Forrest

[larry_cockerham]

Larry,
thank you for your kind words.

After some consideration, I agree that it's rather unlikely that Forrest believed in superstitions. Well, if we assume that superstition is a kind of distorted religious feeling, than it is hard to suppose that someone who turned to God so late in life could have been prone to any religious feeling earlier.

You seem to imply that N.B. Forrest was not religious, whatever that means, as a youth or in his early adulthood. He was married to the daughter of a minister at a young age who took him as a lifelong project, much to her credit. Many items in the record that has survived of this man indicate that he was at the very least both kind and considerate. His reputation as a slave dealer probably gains him few points, but alas he had a reputation as a man who was at least helpful to his property and had the good business sense to care for them and make sure they were happy so as to reduce conflict. His various recorded encounters with youths during the war and his described weeping at his brother Jeffrey's death show that he at least had a heart. Bedford Forrest was a man surrounded by war at its closest reality. He reacted as a warrior, albeit a relatively kind one. He was nice when he really didn't have to be. He was stern when it was of necessity. Sometimes a man like that resists the gentle nudging of a good wife as long as he can, just for the sport of it. The power of God nipping at one's mind is another thing altogether. Each man must make his own deal. I'm sure Lt. Gen. Forrest had least had the discussion.

 

[Bobbie]

Writing that Forrest was not religious I didn't mean anything pejorative. I just have an impression of him as a man who throughout most of his life didn't concern himself much with the metaphysical world. He could have been a sincere, righteous and considerate person at the same time (I believe he was).

My English isn't perfect, so I don't always convey my meaning

 

[larry_cockerham]

YOUR English isn't perfect? I'm from Tennessee! At this age and with my years of listening to our mingling of national origins and variety of both educational and social backgrounds among the folks on the street in Nashville, I suspect near perfect English is an unattainable goal. I, for one of thousands, gave it up a long time ago.

 

[larry_cockerham]

Lt. A. W. Gould

On the morning of April 4, this year, we'll dedicate a tombstone (flat marker) in the Nashville City Cemetery at the grave of Lt. A.W. Gould who died a couple of weeks later from wounds suffered when he was stabbed by Gen. Nathan B. Forrest after Gould shot Forrest with his revolver on June 13, 1863 in Columbia, TN. Gould was upset about an earlier order from Forrest separating him from Forrest's command. The account of the incident can be found in Jack Hurst's NATHAN BEFORD FORREST, A BIOGRAPHY pp 127-28.

 

[TerryB]

Larry, if I could get an invite, I'd like to be there on April 4.

 

[larry_cockerham]

Lt. Andrew W. Gould

Terry, you're more than welcome to join us. There's room for you and a couple of thousand of your friends. No charge for admission. You'll find it a rather quiet neighborhood, to say the least. Here's the schedule:

Sunday, April 5, 2009 - Old Nashville City Cemetery (cor. 4th & Chestnut)
10:30 a.m. Arrival at cemetery
11:00 a.m. Memorial Service and Marker Dedication for
Lt. Andrew Wills Gould

You're also quite welcome at any of our Sam Davis Camp functions or meetings. Our February monthly session is next Thursday Feb 26 at Woodson Chapel Church of Christ on Edmundson Pike just south of Old Hickory Boulevard, now known as Nipper's Corner. We always crank up at 7 pm and usually have a featured presentation about 7:30 with considerable fellowship. Our camp has about 150 members. I can get you in the SUV as well, depending on your persuasion. I have dual ancestry.
I look forward to meeting you and hope to see you April 5 if not before.

 

[TerryB]

Thanks Larry. I'm working full time plus tutoring when I get home, so I don't have much time to spare. I was out at Old City, Saturday I guess it was. Rode my bike around Fort Negley and down to the cemetery and back a few times. They have really done a great job with the renovation. I'll make plans to be there on the 5th.

 

[Southern Son]

Found this 'color photo' of
Nathan B. Forrest
Expired Image Removed

 

[ole]

What a fine photo find, Southern Son! Thank you. He does look likeable, but not a man to mess with.

Ole

 

[larry_cockerham]

Very good likeness of the general, but a color photo before 1877? Nope.

 

[ole]

It was, as they might say, tinted. The photogs were doing that. Of course it wasn't a color photo. My senior HS photo did eliminate the zits. Now I wonder if NBF had zits that were slipped out.

Ole

 

[Southern Son]

Very good likeness of the general, but a color photo before 1877? Nope.

I know it's not an real color photo.
But i think it gives 'life' to a face.
BTW, 1861 the first known permanent color photograph is taken by James Clerk Maxwell.
Found the pic here:
http://sportmag.us/index.php?cPath=30_59

 

[Bobbie]

He was easy on the eyes (*sigh*)

But... did he really have blue eyes? I've read in various accounts about his eyes being gray, black, or blue... So what was their color?

 

[larry_cockerham]

He was easy on the eyes (*sigh*)

Funny, to my knowledge, no one ever said that about Ole or myself.

I don't recall a description of NBF talking about his eye color, though I can probably find our from some of my local researchers. Several different writers, contemporary ones, remarked about his stature and pleasant features. I have several copies of photos of him taken through the years. The aging process was brutal to all men who suffered during that war. The portrait we have posted here is obviously very early in the war. One of the better photos of him, probably taken late in the war or after, is in the Jordan & Pryor's biography written in the 1860s with Forrest's editing. I've seen perhaps a half dozen markedly different images of him, all rather handsome (from a purely masculine viewpoint). Course to me and Ole, handsome is a relative thing. At least I have some handsome relatives! Ole and I have actually met. I can attest that he is only slightly better looking than his posted photo.

 

[Bobbie]

Larry,
I would be grateful if you could ask your local researchers.
Here's what I've found in books so far:

The Artillery of Nathan Bedford Forrest's Cavalry by J. W. Morton:
"The author has never forgotten General Forrest's peculiarly penetrating gaze from under the bushy black brows, the dark gray eyes seeming to read the mind before him."

General Forrest by J. H. Mathes:
[about his mother] "She had dark hair, and, like her oldest son, had bluish-gray eyes";
and:
"Forrest's bright gray eyes blazed as he turned on the speaker"

The Campaigns of Lieut.-Gen. N.B.Forrest, and of Forrest's Cavalry... by T. Jordan and J.P. Pryor:
"Dark gray eyes, singularly bright and searching..."

Life Of General Nathan Bedford Forrest by J. A. Wyeth:
"From beneath the wide and slightly upturned brim of the soft felt-hat, which bore no tawdry plumes, the large, deep-set blue eyes were peering with more than usual alertness.";
and:
"The expression of the face and the look from the large grayish-blue eyes were indicative of the generous and sympa-thetic nature which was his in times of calm and peace."
and:
"His face was pale and thin, and it seemed to me his large
blue eyes had never looked so clear and penetrating."
and:
"There were the same clear eyes of blue, but they were not now afire with the look of anger or defiance which flashed from them amid the stirring scenes of combat."

Nathan Bedford Forrest. A Biography by J. Hurst:
"deep set, black, sneaky eyes";
and:
"having dark, piercing hazel eyes".

The biography by Wyeth has also a nice portrait of Forrest without a beard. And a portrait from 1868, where Bedford's hair and beard are gray - and he looks almost as good as Ole

 

[larry_cockerham]

Larry,
I would be grateful if you could ask your local researchers.
Here's what I've found in books so far:

The Artillery of Nathan Bedford Forrest's Cavalry by J. W. Morton:
"The author has never forgotten General Forrest's peculiarly penetrating gaze from under the bushy black brows, the dark gray eyes seeming to read the mind before him."

General Forrest by J. H. Mathes:
[about his mother] "She had dark hair, and, like her oldest son, had bluish-gray eyes";
and:
"Forrest's bright gray eyes blazed as he turned on the speaker"

The Campaigns of Lieut.-Gen. N.B.Forrest, and of Forrest's Cavalry... by T. Jordan and J.P. Pryor:
"Dark gray eyes, singularly bright and searching..."

Life Of General Nathan Bedford Forrest by J. A. Wyeth:
"From beneath the wide and slightly upturned brim of the soft felt-hat, which bore no tawdry plumes, the large, deep-set blue eyes were peering with more than usual alertness.";
and:
"The expression of the face and the look from the large grayish-blue eyes were indicative of the generous and sympa-thetic nature which was his in times of calm and peace."
and:
"His face was pale and thin, and it seemed to me his large
blue eyes had never looked so clear and penetrating."
and:
"There were the same clear eyes of blue, but they were not now afire with the look of anger or defiance which flashed from them amid the stirring scenes of combat."

Nathan Bedford Forrest. A Biography by J. Hurst:
"deep set, black, sneaky eyes";
and:
"having dark, piercing hazel eyes".

The biography by Wyeth has also a nice portrait of Forrest without a beard. And a portrait from 1868, where Bedford's hair and beard are gray - and he looks almost as good as Ole

I believe he looked far better than Ole, but I've only seen one of 'em.
Of the references you list, three of those men walked and talked with Forrest for years. Pryor, Jordon and Captain John Morton all knew him extremely well. My vote goes for dark gray. Even friend Jack Hurst, an excellent scholar used the term gray. I'm sure he made it a point to check before writing. I"ll see about 75 Forrest scholars at my SCV meetings next week, so I'll get a consensus.

 

[richard]

When I lived and worked in Chattanooga some years ago people would bring old photos to have them copied. Many of these photos were of Civil War soldiers. Some times, well more than some times, the copies would be hand tinted and when they were picked up the customer would discover that the uniform would be tinted the incorrect color.

Eyes were always hard to tint due the many shades of brown, blue, green or gray. Larry will, I am sure, will find the correct shade for you. He has been around for a long time.

Richard

 

[ole]

Calumney! It is uncharacteristic for a Norske, but my eyes are brown. Dark brown. (Deep, dark, intriguing brown.) Of the seven of us, there are three with brown eyes.

But I still like the tinted photo of NBF.

Ole

 

[larry_cockerham]

Calumney! It is uncharacteristic for a Norske, but my eyes are brown. Dark brown. (Deep, dark, intriguing brown.) Of the seven of us, there are three with brown eyes.

But I still like the tinted photo of NBF.

Ole

I think I know why your eyes are brown, but it's just a theory. I agree, that's a fine portrait of the general.

 

[larry_cockerham]

Forrest - Gould affair

Please make plans to join the TN Division of the SCV when we dedicate a gravestone for Lt. Andrew Wills Gould on the morning of April 5, upcoming, in the old city cemetery corner of Oak Street and 4th Avenue South. 10:30 a.m. Lt. Gould was an artillery officer who became upset with Nathan Bedford Forrest and made the mistake of his brief life in doing so. After sending a bullet into Forrest's abdomen, he tried to flee as the good General placed the blade of a pocket knife into his ribs. The gravestone has been damaged by both weather and traffic since 1866 and is being replaced. More of the story can be found on the TN Division SCV website. Speaking will be Bob Duncan, Maury County historian and Dr. Michael R. Bradley, Tennessee Division SCV Commander.