The Black Flag

[jackt62]

Most of the time both sides including Mosby did exchange prisoners. There was a brief period where they did not but after a few retaliatory killings it stoped. I can't get to the source this instant. On the whole Mosby did not fight under the black flag.
Leftyhunter

Yes, that is true. In fact, retaliation probably started when Union troops under G.A. Custer killed some of Mosby's captured men.

 

[KansasFreestater]

Whenever I hear the term, I think of Thomas Goodrich's excellent book, The Black Flag: Guerrilla Warfare on the Western Border, 1861-1865.
It's a must-read for anyone who wants to know what "the black flag" really means. It meant everyone killing everyone.

 

[leftyhunter]

Yes, that is true. In fact, retaliation probably started when Union troops under G.A. Custer killed some of Mosby's captured men.

When I get home I can dig up the source. Actually Union troops thought that Mosbys men had murdered some of their fellow troopers. In war as in love perception is reality.
Leftyhunter

 

[War Horse]

Just remember true Black Flag warfare meant no prisoners, death to all. Black Flag warfare was a crime of war. Yes, early in the war Jackson advocated it and so did Sherman. Both men were quickly rained in. Nathan Bedford Forrest was accused of it and suffered the only official investigation by the war department. Which resulted in no official charges brought against him. It is possible, even likely it was practiced in certain instances, but never proven that I'm aware of.

 

[War Horse]

Whenever I hear the term, I think of Thomas Goodrich's excellent book, The Black Flag: Guerrilla Warfare on the Western Border, 1861-1865.
It's a must-read for anyone who wants to know what "the black flag" really means. It meant everyone killing everyone.

Exactly!

 

[leftyhunter]

Look up the term "hookers" - or is that a CW myth?

We have a few threads on that. The term hookers was used for antebellum era prostitutes.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

Oh no, Fighting Joe Hooker was a prostitute, now I'm really confused.

We gave a thread titled " Mr. F.J. Hooker. Hookers men in Georgia inflicted 1,500 casualties on Hood for a loss of 250 casualties. Not the worse Union general. Hooker never went " black flag.
I apologize for going off topic but I like Hooker the man could party
Leftyhunter

 

[War Horse]

We gave a thread titled " Mr. F.J. Hooker. Hookers men in Georgia inflicted 1,500 casualties on Hood for a loss of 250 casualties. Not the worse Union general. Hooker never went " black flag.
I apologize for going off topic but I like Hooker the man could party
Leftyhunter

And reorganize an army I might add

 

[Cavalry Charger]

Yes, that is true. In fact, retaliation probably started when Union troops under G.A. Custer killed some of Mosby's captured men.

Taken from Michael C.C. Adams book "Living Hell - The Dark Side of the Civil War":

General Philip H. Sheridan, acting under Grant's authority carried out the most thorough ravaging of Virginia. He systematically destroyed mills, farms, livestock, and crops, driving the inhabitants into exposure and starvation...

As the Army of Northern Virginia fell back, yielding ground to the enemy and unable to protect the civilian population in occupied territory, the job of contesting the invaders fell to Partisan Rangers. Even though there were regularly enlisted troops, they provoked Federal ire, the high command categorizing them as guerillas because they only wore unifroms on raids, disguising themselves as noncombatants when pursued. Thus, they became subject to summary execution under the usages of war. Colonel John Singleton Mosby's rangers had the most impact in Virginia engendering Union fear and hatred; they therefore became the most hounded.

Grant ordered Sheridan to execute Mosby's men without trial, codifying a practice in use as early as April 1863, when one of General George Armstrong Custer's troopers, following a bushwhacking, swore: "We take no prisoners after this". Custer, who had Southern friends at West Point, nevertheless became vicious in hunting down and killing raiders, even in front o their families, perhaps an example of psychotic fury. In an inevitable escalation, Lee announced in November 1864: "I have directed Colonel Mosby to hang an equal number of Custer's men in retaliation for those executed by him'. Still, some of this mutual savagery may have been avoided. In a recent study, Daniel E. Sutherland argues that partisan and guerrilla warfare became extremely vicious partly because the top authorities on both sides failed to fully integrate unconventional forces into their military establishments. Without clear guidelines defining their role, troops on both sides in the shadow war became increasingly independent, ungovernable, and ruthless".

 

[GS]

Interesting. Although I am aware of atrocities (Fort Pillow comes to mind), most of the incidents I've come across were individual in nature, not commanded or authorized by a senior officer. After all, captured blacks were generally considered property and returned to their previous owners (if they could be found), loaned to local planters or placed on work details.
As to "No quarter", that was frequently used as a threat, but seldom- if ever- followed through.
You mention corroborating evidence for Hood ordering "No quarter". Can you provide specifically where I can find those allegations?

You can Google search and find several sources. Here is one:

October 13th, 1864 Capture of Dalton, GA
by Lee White (BullyforBragg.blogspot.com, Civil War Interactive recommended blog)

After the fall of Atlanta, Hood began a northward movement in an attempt to force Sherman to abandon Atlanta. Hood struck at Sherman's supply line, the Western and Atlantic Railroad, and there were a number of small battles fought with Union garrisons along the way, the most notable being the Battle of Allatoona Pass on October 5th. Hood arrived in front of Dalton on October 13th, which was then garrisoned by a large detachment of the 44th USCT and a few companies of white troops totaling about 750 men, all under the command of the 44th's colonel, Lewis Johnson.
The town was surrounded by Hood and artillery placed on a ridge that overlooked the town and its garrison. Hood sent in a demand for unconditional surrender or risk the whole garrison be put to the sword, as his infantry prepared to attack, Pvt. William Bevins of the 1st Arkansas remembered, "While the artillery made ready the Texans passed the word down the line as though it came from General Cheatham, 'Kill every **** one of them,' which would have been carrying out their own threat of 'no quarter.'" Given the odds Johnson surrendered. The USCTs were seperated from their officers and soon forced to work tearing up the railroad, several incidents occured where at least six USCTs were shot down for refusing.
With the railroad broken again, Hood moved westward to the community of Villanow, along the way, Bevins recalled, "That evening the Texas command moved over to us. We heard them yelling and singing but did not know what had happened. They were guarding the negro prisoners, and were calling to us, 'Here are your "no quarter" negroes, come and kill them!" The poor negroes, with eyes popped out nearly two inches, begged, prayed, and made all sorts of promises for the future. They soon moved on out of sight....". At Villanow a pen was errected to house the 44th, and a call was sent out to locals to claim any of them who might have been runaways and the USCT officers were paroled and sent to Chattanooga. The stay at Villanow was short though and Hood continued moving westward. Over the next couple of weeks Hood would continue westward with the USCTs in tow. What remains a mystery is what happened to the majority of them, 350 would make it to the end of Hood's march to Florence, Ala, where they were sent work rebuilding railroads in Mississippi, Rev. Charles Quintard would recall seeing them, "I saw a number of Negroes captured at Dalton-some in the most distressing condition-evidently dying." A few made their escapes and made it back to what remained of the 44th at Chattanooga. Still others would have been claimed by their former owners, or those who said they were their owners. Still others died along the route, the exact numbers are lost to history.
One of the most haunting images of the Civil War comes from one member that would survive the whole ordeal, Hubbard Pryor. Pryor was a runaway from North Georgia who had joined the 44th in March of 1864, at which time two photographs were made of him, one in uniform and the other displaying the condition he arrived in.

 

[WJC]

You can Google search and find several sources. Here is one:

October 13th, 1864 Capture of Dalton, GA
by Lee White (BullyforBragg.blogspot.com, Civil War Interactive recommended blog)

After the fall of Atlanta, Hood began a northward movement in an attempt to force Sherman to abandon Atlanta. Hood struck at Sherman's supply line, the Western and Atlantic Railroad, and there were a number of small battles fought with Union garrisons along the way, the most notable being the Battle of Allatoona Pass on October 5th. Hood arrived in front of Dalton on October 13th, which was then garrisoned by a large detachment of the 44th USCT and a few companies of white troops totaling about 750 men, all under the command of the 44th's colonel, Lewis Johnson.
The town was surrounded by Hood and artillery placed on a ridge that overlooked the town and its garrison. Hood sent in a demand for unconditional surrender or risk the whole garrison be put to the sword, as his infantry prepared to attack, Pvt. William Bevins of the 1st Arkansas remembered, "While the artillery made ready the Texans passed the word down the line as though it came from General Cheatham, 'Kill every **** one of them,' which would have been carrying out their own threat of 'no quarter.'" Given the odds Johnson surrendered. The USCTs were seperated from their officers and soon forced to work tearing up the railroad, several incidents occured where at least six USCTs were shot down for refusing.
With the railroad broken again, Hood moved westward to the community of Villanow, along the way, Bevins recalled, "That evening the Texas command moved over to us. We heard them yelling and singing but did not know what had happened. They were guarding the negro prisoners, and were calling to us, 'Here are your "no quarter" negroes, come and kill them!" The poor negroes, with eyes popped out nearly two inches, begged, prayed, and made all sorts of promises for the future. They soon moved on out of sight....". At Villanow a pen was errected to house the 44th, and a call was sent out to locals to claim any of them who might have been runaways and the USCT officers were paroled and sent to Chattanooga. The stay at Villanow was short though and Hood continued moving westward. Over the next couple of weeks Hood would continue westward with the USCTs in tow. What remains a mystery is what happened to the majority of them, 350 would make it to the end of Hood's march to Florence, Ala, where they were sent work rebuilding railroads in Mississippi, Rev. Charles Quintard would recall seeing them, "I saw a number of Negroes captured at Dalton-some in the most distressing condition-evidently dying." A few made their escapes and made it back to what remained of the 44th at Chattanooga. Still others would have been claimed by their former owners, or those who said they were their owners. Still others died along the route, the exact numbers are lost to history.
One of the most haunting images of the Civil War comes from one member that would survive the whole ordeal, Hubbard Pryor. Pryor was a runaway from North Georgia who had joined the 44th in March of 1864, at which time two photographs were made of him, one in uniform and the other displaying the condition he arrived in.

Thanks for your reply.
Given this and other experiences during the war, together with their pre-war experiences, one wonders how so many Confederate officials deluded themselves into believing by late in the war that slaves could be forced into combat roles in support of the 'peculiar institution'.
They seem to have indeed believed that slavery was not only good for the slaves, but heartily endorsed by the slaves.

 

[Will Carry]

I will continue to investigate, and d*** those Germans! I don't think they operated by the same book as the rest of civilized society at the time...

American airborne troops took no quarter during Operation Market Garden while crossing the Meuse River. German troops who surrendered were shot and the German wounded were tossed into the river.

 

[Cavalry Charger]

American airborne troops took no quarter during Operation Market Garden while crossing the Meuse River. German troops who surrendered were shot and the German wounded were tossed into the river.

'No quarter' cuts both ways at times. I'm not sure what stage the war was at when this occurred, but no doubt the 'codes of war' made allowances for it. I don't think those codes made allowances for many of the other atrocities carried out by the Nazis. My mother is German, and my heritage on all that side of my family is German. She has continued to carry shame throughout her life for the atrocities of the Nazis. I have no sympathy, and would also give 'no quarter', to the men who carried them out.

 

[WJC]

American airborne troops took no quarter during Operation Market Garden while crossing the Meuse River. German troops who surrendered were shot and the German wounded were tossed into the river.

Such incidents in the cesspool that is mortal combat have been more common than we like to believe. We have been conditioned by the media to believe that in spite of the vicious nature of combat, the constant fear and the wild emotions, every participant (at least on OUR side) is able to make nothing but rational, merciful decisions.
We send our youth into battle, putting them in terrible situations we ourselves are afraid to contemplate.
"I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell." --- William Tecumseh Sherman.
"I wonder if God will forgive those who start wars.... I hope not." --- William D. Ellis, Vietnam War Veteran.

 

[Cavalry Charger]

Such incidents in the cesspool that is mortal combat have been more common than we like to believe. We have been conditioned by the media to believe that in spite of the vicious nature of combat, the constant fear and the wild emotions, every participant (at least on OUR side) is able to make nothing but rational, merciful decisions.
We send our youth into battle, putting them in terrible situations we ourselves are afraid to contemplate.
"I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell." --- William Tecumseh Sherman.
"I wonder if God will forgive those who start wars.... I hope not." --- William D. Ellis, Vietnam War Veteran.

I'd be interested to know when Sherman said that. Any idea?

 

[WJC]

I'd be interested to know when Sherman said that. Any idea?

Thanks for your response.
It is from a May 21, 1865 letter to James E. Yeatman of St. Louis. <John F. Maarzalek, Sherman: A soldier's Passion for Order. (Carbondale, IL: Southern Illinois University Press, 2007), p. 358.>
Much the same sentiment is contained in his September 12, 1864 response to the Mayor and Council of Atlanta. Both the letter from the city fathers and his response can be seen at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~josephkennedy/Sherman_1864.htm

 

[GS]

Thanks for your reply.
Given this and other experiences during the war, together with their pre-war experiences, one wonders how so many Confederate officials deluded themselves into believing by late in the war that slaves could be forced into combat roles in support of the 'peculiar institution'.
They seem to have indeed believed that slavery was not only good for the slaves, but heartily endorsed by the slaves.

From a Christian point of view, I say the leaders were blinded by their sins, the root of which was pride.

 

[WJC]

From a Christian point of view, I say the leaders were blinded by their sins, the root of which was pride.

Thanks for your response.
And in the overwhelmingly Christian society of the time, that is probably what many- certainly in the northern states but perhaps also in the southern states- thought of it.
For an interesting perspective on the role religion played in the south at this time, see Thomas L. Connelly and Barbara A. Bellows, God and General Longstreet: the Lost Cause and the Southern Mind. (Baton Rouge, LA: Louisiana State University Press, 1982).

 

[GS]

Thanks for your response.
And in the overwhelmingly Christian society of the time, that is probably what many- certainly in the northern states but perhaps also in the southern states- thought of it.
For an interesting perspective on the role religion played in the south at this time, see Thomas L. Connelly and Barbara A. Bellows, God and General Longstreet: the Lost Cause and the Southern Mind. (Baton Rouge, LA: Louisiana State University Press, 1982).

You are correct. The worldwide Great Awakening had occurred just decades prior to the War, and men (those not blinded by pride) had turned back to God, searched the Bible for truths which had fallen by the wayside. In America, this was especially true in New England, and surely played a part in the abolitionist movement.

 

[WJC]

You are correct. The worldwide Great Awakening had occurred just decades prior to the War, and men (those not blinded by pride) had turned back to God, searched the Bible for truths which had fallen by the wayside. In America, this was especially true in New England, and surely played a part in the abolitionist movement.

Thanks for your response.
Regarding the abolitionist movement and its religious roots, especially among black abolitionists, you might enjoy Timothy P. McCarthy and John Stauffer, Prophets of Protest: Reconsidering the History of American Abolitionism. (New York: The New Press, 2006).