The Black Flag

Are there many examples of the no quarter rule being used?
Overall it tends to be more of COIN warfare feature. Obviously some exceptions to the rule especially Confederates vs USCT. Ft. Pillow really set the stage for some tit for tat. Lets not also forget when General Pickett executed captured North Carolina Unionist soldiers who had deserted from the Confederate Army.
Not to say the survival rate in a Civil War POW Camp was all that great.
Leftyhunter
 
Are there many examples of the no quarter rule being used?
There seems to be a number of random examples which I have come across, and I initially started this thread with the understanding that a 'no quarter' order had been given in the initiation of the fighting at Fredericksburg with the crossing of the Rappahanock by Federal forces. It was a hazardous crossing, and greatly impeded by the rebels, but I am yet to find any firm evidence of this. Thus, it has led to a general discussion around the Order, but there are a couple of examples given in this thread where the Order seems to have been in operation, originally as a deterrent to guerillas on the Federal side, and more as a 'retaliatory' measure on the Confederate side. That's not to say that both sides didn't act in retaliation at times, and no one is blameless. The 'total war' response of the Federals also has me wondering whether that could be considered 'black flag' in its nature, but that is just an impression of mine for now. Obviously the Lieber Code made allowances for all the actions of the Union army in the heat of battle, and as a means to bring the war to an end. I am interested to know if the Confederates enacted any similar Codes that defined their method of fighting, but it seems the leeway provided in the Lieber Code provides scope for the majority of the actions of the Confederate army as well.

Conclusion: War is an ugly business, and best to be avoided...if at all possible!
 
There seems to be a number of random examples which I have come across, and I initially started this thread with the understanding that a 'no quarter' order had been given in the initiation of the fighting at Fredericksburg with the crossing of the Rappahanock by Federal forces. It was a hazardous crossing, and greatly impeded by the rebels, but I am yet to find any firm evidence of this. Thus, it has led to a general discussion around the Order, but there are a couple of examples given in this thread where the Order seems to have been in operation, originally as a deterrent to guerillas on the Federal side, and more as a 'retaliatory' measure on the Confederate side. That's not to say that both sides didn't act in retaliation at times, and no one is blameless. The 'total war' response of the Federals also has me wondering whether that could be considered 'black flag' in its nature, but that is just an impression of mine for now. Obviously the Lieber Code made allowances for all the actions of the Union army in the heat of battle, and as a means to bring the war to an end. I am interested to know if the Confederates enacted any similar Codes that defined their method of fighting, but it seems the leeway provided in the Lieber Code provides scope for the majority of the actions of the Confederate army as well.


Conclusion: War is an ugly business, and best to be avoided...if at all possible!

There were many occasions during the battle of Waterloo where the order of 'No quarter' was given by the British, French and Prussians, during one particular attack, the British and Prussian cavalry attacked a French artillery position, the French artillery squadron made an attempt to run but they were overwhelmed by the sheer number of cavalry, the French guard that were formed into squares down below the artillery position were powerless to help but they could clearly hear the order of no quarter being called out, the result of that particular action meant that whenever British or Prussian troops were captured by the French they to could expect a 'no quarter, no mercy order'. Plenty of men that had either surrendered or were captured were quickly executed. At Waterloo the no quarter order was given for no better reason than to wipe the enemy from the battlefield. The result of the no quarter order had the men on both sides taking their own lives rather than being captured. As you have already stated 'war is an ugly business'.
 
There were many occasions during the battle of Waterloo where the order of 'No quarter' was given by the British, French and Prussians, during one particular attack, the British and Prussian cavalry attacked a French artillery position, the French artillery squadron made an attempt to run but they were overwhelmed by the sheer number of cavalry, the French guard that were formed into squares down below the artillery position were powerless to help but they could clearly hear the order of no quarter being called out, the result of that particular action meant that whenever British or Prussian troops were captured by the French they to could expect a 'no quarter, no mercy order'. Plenty of men that had either surrendered or were captured were quickly executed. At Waterloo the no quarter order was given for no better reason than to wipe the enemy from the battlefield. The result of the no quarter order had the men on both sides taking their own lives rather than being captured. As you have already stated 'war is an ugly business'.
I'll tell you an interesting story which relates to the end of your post. Many years ago, I went to see a 'psychic' who, to cut a long story short, told me in my past life I had been a 10th Century warrior (somehow I have the impression it was in Britain) who had taken my own life rather than accept capture by the enemy. Going by what you have said, such an action is a distinct possibility, though I had never considered such a thing before! Now, I don't put much store by such people and what they say, but...
 
I'll tell you an interesting story which relates to the end of your post. Many years ago, I went to see a 'psychic' who, to cut a long story short, told me in my past life I had been a 10th Century warrior (somehow I have the impression it was in Britain) who had taken my own life rather than accept capture by the enemy. Going by what you have said, such an action is a distinct possibility, though I had never considered such a thing before! Now, I don't put much store by such people and what they say, but...
Interesting, the Anglo Saxons were fighting the Danes during the 10th C.
 
Interesting, indeed. The Danes must have been ferocious fighters...were they Vikings, or is it too late for the Vikings then?
The Danes were a Germanic tribe, the word Viking is misunderstood, Viking wasn't used to describe who you were it was used to describe what you did, for example, he raised an army and went 'Viking', its a bit like using the term Norsemen (men from the North). So, in the 10th Century, we had Scandinavians but that term wasn't used until many years after the so called Viking invasions. Its probably easier to say various Scandinavian and Germanic tribes were in Britain during the 10th C. And yes, they were all very good at the art of war and killing.
My house is built in an area of an old Anglo-Saxon stronghold 'King Alfred', just down the road from me is King Alfred's tower which was built to commemorate his victory over the Danes'. On a clear day you can look down across the old battlefields and imagine thousands of Danes heading for a fight, it must have been a terrifying sight.
Just so we don't stray to far from the original OP, I would hazard a guess and say that definitely no quarter would have been given.:thumbsup:
If you want to have a chat about that particular piece of Brit history, please feel free to PM me.
 
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The Danes were a Germanic tribe, the word Viking is misunderstood, Viking wasn't used to describe who you were it was used to describe what you did, for example, he raised an army and went 'Viking', its a bit like using the term Norsemen (men from the North). So, in the 10th Century, we had Scandinavians but that term wasn't used until many years after the so called Viking invasions. Its probably easier to say various Scandinavian and Germanic tribes were in Britain during the 10th C. And yes, they were all very good at the art of war and killing.
My house is built in an area of an old Anglo-Saxon stronghold 'King Alfred', just down the road from me is King Alfred's tower which was built to commemorate his victory over the Danes'. On a clear day you can look down across the old battlefields and imagine thousands of Danes heading for a fight, it must have been a terrifying sight.
Just so we don't stray to far from the original OP, I would hazard a guess and say that definitely no quarter would have been given.:thumbsup:
If you want to have a chat about that particular piece of Brit history, please feel free to PM me.
Will do...God only knows what I was up to a Millenia ago :P
 
The Danes were a Germanic tribe, the word Viking is misunderstood, Viking wasn't used to describe who you were it was used to describe what you did, for example, he raised an army and went 'Viking', its a bit like using the term Norsemen (men from the North). So, in the 10th Century, we had Scandinavians but that term wasn't used until many years after the so called Viking invasions. Its probably easier to say various Scandinavian and Germanic tribes were in Britain during the 10th C. And yes, they were all very good at the art of war and killing.
My house is built in an area of an old Anglo-Saxon stronghold 'King Alfred', just down the road from me is King Alfred's tower which was built to commemorate his victory over the Danes'. On a clear day you can look down across the old battlefields and imagine thousands of Danes heading for a fight, it must have been a terrifying sight.
Just so we don't stray to far from the original OP, I would hazard a guess and say that definitely no quarter would have been given.:thumbsup:
If you want to have a chat about that particular piece of Brit history, please feel free to PM me.

So what you are saying Waterlo50, is back in the day, "Viking" was a verb which turned into a noun by the people who practiced it.

The same can be said for the word "jahawking" which originally ment one who, normally from Kansas, went on a trip to rob and plundered those people from Missouri. It came into use in the middle of the 1850's. The word later evolved into a noun, meaning a Jayhawker is someone from Kansas, in general, and more particularly someone who attended Kansas University.
 
So what you are saying Waterlo50, is back in the day, "Viking" was a verb which turned into a noun by the people who practiced it.

The same can be said for the word "jahawking" which originally ment one who, normally from Kansas, went on a trip to rob and plundered those people from Missouri. It came into use in the middle of the 1850's. The word later evolved into a noun, meaning a Jayhawker is someone from Kansas, in general, and more particularly someone who attended Kansas University.

Viking means 'To raid' it was used to describe a group of raiders from Scandinavia and the surrounding area, you will often read posts where people claim that they have Viking ancestry but what they really have are ancestors from Norway, Denmark and Sweden. Its misleading really, people assume that Vikings originated from the same area and that the term Viking describes a single race of people. In some respects the term Jayhawk has suffered the same fate, these days Jayhawk is used to describe a group of raiders or guerrillas from the civil war, so its becomes a generic term rather than a specific description of Kansas raiders.
 
So what you are saying Waterlo50, is back in the day, "Viking" was a verb which turned into a noun by the people who practiced it.

The same can be said for the word "jahawking" which originally ment one who, normally from Kansas, went on a trip to rob and plundered those people from Missouri. It came into use in the middle of the 1850's. The word later evolved into a noun, meaning a Jayhawker is someone from Kansas, in general, and more particularly someone who attended Kansas University.
And I had been meaning to look that one up! Thanks for providing a timely explanation around Jayhawking :) Interesting how terms come into common use, and we often don't know how or where they originated. Same goes for Vikings @Waterloo50
 
...... these days Jayhawk is used to describe a group of raiders or guerrillas from the civil war, so its becomes a generic term rather than a specific description of Kansas raiders.

Not quite, but being from England you wouldn't know this.
Being from Missouri, and having graduated from the University of Missouri (Mizzou Tigers!!) we called those who attend Kansas University and their mascot the Jayhawks, a very special name, but decorum prevents me from mentioning it. In its day it was second oldest college rivalry in the U.S.

Now back to the CW
 
Not quite, but being from England you wouldn't know this.
Being from Missouri, and having graduated from the University of Missouri (Mizzou Tigers!!) we called those who attend Kansas University and their mascot the Jayhawks, a very special name, but decorum prevents me from mentioning it. In its day it was second oldest college rivalry in the U.S.

Now back to the CW
I thought Jayhawkers were from Kansas and that they fought primarily against Border Ruffians, I'm confused.
 
I thought Jayhawkers were from Kansas and that they fought primarily against Border Ruffians, I'm confused.

Originally yes, you're correct. But long after the war when things settled down they named the mascot for one of their univerities the "Jayhawks" so if you ask someone now where they're from and they say " I'm a Jayhawk" you know their from Kansas (and they have low morals and can't be trusted) - maybe I shouldn't put that last part in there-na, its good.
 
So what you are saying Waterlo50, is back in the day, "Viking" was a verb which turned into a noun by the people who practiced it.

The same can be said for the word "jahawking" which originally ment one who, normally from Kansas, went on a trip to rob and plundered those people from Missouri. It came into use in the middle of the 1850's. The word later evolved into a noun, meaning a Jayhawker is someone from Kansas, in general, and more particularly someone who attended Kansas University.
I can't remember the source, but this is a good tale: A Kansas raider (of Irish origin) was seen crossing back into Kansas with some Missouri plunder. One of his friends asked: "How did you get all of that?" The reply was: "I jayhawked it."
Now, the perpetrator was from Ireland and the legend is that an Irish jayhawk is a bird of prey that torments its prey before killing it.

Most likely, this is all legend, but it makes a good story and it was probably appropriated by the jayhawkers because it's such a good story.
 

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