Sumter Provocation

[wilber6150]

Peter Hart, ( sorry white servant not slave) Left NY on Jan 3rd with Mrs Anderson, arrived on Sun 6th Jan. she met with Gov Pickens who declined to allow Hart to increase the Garrison by another man. Mrs. Anderson sent a message to the governor, saying, "I shall take Hart with me, with or without a pass." and he relented and at 10 A.M. on Jan. 6, accompanied by a few personal friends, Mrs. Anderson and Peter Hart went in a boat to Fort Sumter. Its hart who replaces the Flag when its shot off during the bombardment.

Why is it important?.

I have already given my position many times, and sadly the rest of your post questions you can find the answers have already been given.

Its important because you are using this factoid to show that there was plenty of food at Sumter, but once again you bring up things in January when the situation had totally changed by March and so are useless..And if you didn't bury your answers in pages of unrelated material I could figure it out.. So just answer this.. In your mind was Anderson lying to Washinton when he described the conditions of his food supply on April 1?

 

[wilber6150]

When you control the langauge of the argument, you control the debate, it was not ever a Civil war.

Nothing wrong with my sense of humour btw, but i take your point.

I disagree, compared to other wars, the way the men treated each other was very civil...

 

[brass napoleon]

And if you didn't bury your answers in pages of unrelated material I could figure it out..

That's the whole strategy, and always has been with this poster.

 

[B Peach]

Its important because you are using this factoid to show that there was plenty of food at Sumter,

Why do you conclude that?.

but once again you bring up things in January when the situation had totally changed by March and so are useless..And if you didn't bury your answers in pages of unrelated material I could figure it out..

No, what happens in any month effects the following month, to understand the situation at the end, you have to understand, have the data from the middle and start for any conclusion to be valid.

I have given no unrelated material.

So just answer this.. In your mind was Anderson lying to Washinton when he described the conditions of his food supply on April 1?

You have asked this already and i have answered it.

 

[B Peach]

That's the whole strategy, and always has been with this poster.

Yes thats right, present all the relavent facts and let each acording to there own ability and inclination/understand what they can/want from them.

 

[B Peach]

I disagree, compared to other wars, the way the men treated each other was very civil...

Nice pun.

Id put in a smiley but dont see how to.

 

[wilber6150]

Why do you conclude that?.
.

We know Anderson wife sent her slave to Sumpter from NY, once she heard Anderson had moved there, Peter Hart, who Anderson used as his trusted caterer for the garrison in fresh provisions in the Charleston market is one further example of how we know that while SC allowed provisoning from Charleston, there was no starvation

because you said it

 

[brass napoleon]

Yes thats right, present all the relavent facts and let each acording to there own ability and inclination/understand what they can/want from them.

Right, throw the spaghetti(?) against the wall and see what sticks:

 

[wilber6150]

Now since April 7 was the official date for the order to shut down all supplies and since the officers of the fort were telling people by mid March that they were running short on food, and Anderson states on April 1 that he would be out of food within a couple of weeks then one of these things must be happening:

Anderson and his officers were lying in their offical reports and to vistors to the fort about their food supplies...

or

Anderson didn't know how much was coming into his fort and made a mistake about the food levels

or

Sumter had already had the majority of their outside food source cut off before April 1

or

the majority of the food coming in was being consumed by the civilians and the military men were eating out of their stores...

 

[OpnCoronet]

The amount of food available had no bearing in SC and csa determination to force the surrender of the Fort. If not the issue of supplies, another would have been manufactured as needed. All evidence of Federal authority had to be eliminated(and that as soon as practicable) was neccessary to validate secession and independence .
Davis and his administration had already decided upon the mode of legitimizing the south's independence(War), it was only necessary to follow the logic of that decision and create the war.

 

[wilber6150]

Did Sumter have a fresh water supply or did they have cisterns or did they transport water from Chraleston?

 

[dvrmte]

Did Sumter have a fresh water supply or did they have cisterns or did they transport water from Chraleston?

They had cisterns. It's on one of these Sumter threads.

I bet I know why the confusion on "Sumter" and "Sumpter" spelling, especially among notherners. People in South Carolina, even today, pronounce it with the "P". It's part of our accent.

Sumter is pronounced either Sumptuh in the low country or Sumpter in the upstate.

Clemson is pronounced Climpsen.

 

[johan_steele]

I would never tell another what opinion they should have. I trust most intelligent people to make their own opinions. But when I deal w/ someone who thinks starving out a garrison isn't a provocative act I have to wonder as to the intelligence of said person. Much as I have to wonder how they can willfully ignore any provocative act made by the CS... but w/ some people blinders are a necessity. I would say such a person needed to serve an enlistment, but to those who claim to have already... I just have to shake my head in wonder.

Swanburg, W.A., First Blood the Story of Ft Sumter, Charles Scribner's Sons, 1957 edition see specifically Chapter XXIV, 4th paragraph of the chapter the quote begins on pg 273.

If anyone would like to see a scan of the work I can arrange that, all I will need is an email addy vis PM and I will send it. I would post the scan here but I cannot do so from this computer.

 

[Glorybound]

Let's refrain from name-calling please, it's unnecessary and inflammatory. If the opponent with whom you're debating falls short of support documentation and backup source material, it will eventually be apparent to everyone who has the stronger argument, and who's is deficient. Not necessary to lash out in a tirade against anyone on this board. The posts speak for themselves, so let's back it down a notch, now. Thank you.



Posted as moderator

 

[ole]

They had cisterns. It's on one of these Sumter threads.

I bet I know why the confusion on "Sumter" and "Sumpter" spelling, especially among notherners. People in South Carolina, even today, pronounce it with the "P". It's part of our accent.

Sumter is pronounced either Sumptuh in the low country or Sumpter in the upstate.

Clemson is pronounced Climpsen.

I pronounce it Sumpter but, like many other words, it is not spelled like it sounds.

 

[wilber6150]

I would never tell another what opinion they should have. I trust most intelligent people to make their own opinions. But when I deal w/ someone who thinks starving out a garrison isn't a provocative act I have to wonder as to the intelligence of said person. Much as I have to wonder how they can willfully ignore any provocative act made by the CS... but w/ some people blinders are a necessity. I would say such a person needed to serve an enlistment, but you claim to have already... so I just have to shake my head in wonder.

Swanburg, W.A., First Blood the Story of Ft Sumter, Charles Scribner's Sons, 1957 edition see specifically Chapter XXIV, 4th paragraph of the chapter the quote begins on pg 273.

If anyone would like to see a scan of the work I can arrange that, all I will need is an email addy vis PM and I will send it. I would post the scan here but I cannot do so from this computer.

What did you think of this book? Must say its the first time I've heard of it, odd how you find things on Amazon though you have made a search with the same keyword multiple times...

 

[ole]

Wonder how they funnelled rainwater into the cisterns. There weren't that many roofs.

 

[wilber6150]

They had cisterns. It's on one of these Sumter threads.

I bet I know why the confusion on "Sumter" and "Sumpter" spelling, especially among notherners. People in South Carolina, even today, pronounce it with the "P". It's part of our accent.

Sumter is pronounced either Sumptuh in the low country or Sumpter in the upstate.

Clemson is pronounced Climpsen.

Geeze you guys talk to slow and add extra letters......Im telling you its the heat

 

[ole]

What did you think of this book? Must say its the first time I've heard of it, odd how you find things on Amazon though you have onde a search witht he same keyword multiple times...

Swanberg was one of the earlier historians. Have read three books on Sumter, but haven't gotten around to his.

 

[wilber6150]

Its on amazon for under $5, I think I will pick it up...Whats another shelf of books lol