Springfield Conversion

[Folson]

Hello to the Forum. Thank you for letting me join. I am a History nut. Love American History. My topic is obvious on this Forum and the Forum as a whole. But not being well versed on the weapons as I would want to be, thus my question and interest. I recently picked up in auction a Springfield musket conservation. The lock is dated 1864, breech 1866. Obviously the 2nd conversion. Its in good shape if original. But how do you know with no Serial etc? IE A Bannerman, parts gun etc... Are there any solid things to determine. I have searched the forums but still confused. Ha! Its 32" from breech (Barrel Length) Its a 2 band where I cannot see where a third could of been. The nose piece is missing with no indication of being modified etc. The first band is 6" from the Nose. or Just under 10 1/2 from end of barrel. 11 1/2 from band to band measured from the center of the bands.From the nose to the 2nd bnd 18". The front site is 1 1/2" from the end of the barrel to the middle of the front site. Its missing the cleaning rod. I have not dissambled so do not know if there are additional barrel marks other than what appears to be A or up sidedown V on the left side of the barrel under the breech.The Trapdoorhinge screw is soldered.. Any ideas? Also I purchased the Civil War Guns by Edwards but realistixally not alot of info on conversions. Thanks

 

[Cato3rd]

Hello to the Forum. Thank you for letting me join. I am a History nut. Love American History. My topic is obvious on this Forum and the Forum as a whole. But not being well versed on the weapons as I would want to be, thus my question and interest. I recently picked up in auction a Springfield musket conservation. The lock is dated 1864, breech 1866. Obviously the 2nd conversion. Its in good shape if original. But how do you know with no Serial etc? IE A Bannerman, parts gun etc... Are there any solid things to determine. I have searched the forums but still confused. Ha! Its 32" from breech (Barrel Length) Its a 2 band where I cannot see where a third could have been. The nose piece is missing with no indication of being modified etc. The first band is 6" from the Nose. or Just under 10 1/2 from end of barrel. 11 1/2 from band to band measured from the center of the bands.From the nose to the 2nd bnd 18". The front site is 1 1/2" from the end of the barrel to the middle of the front site. Its missing the cleaning rod. I have not dissambled so do not know if there are additional barrel marks other than what appears to be A or up sidedown V on the left side of the barrel under the breech.The Trapdoorhinge screw is soldered.. Any ideas? Also I purchased the Civil War Guns by Edwards but realistixally not alot of info on conversions. Thanks

Post some pictures if you can in this thread. It will help determine what exactly you have. Especially any and all markings on it

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy

 

[scooter748driver]

Welcome from the Fort Sumter and the Fredericksburg forums.

 

[redbob]

Welcome to the group from middle Alabama.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

Al Frasca ran a website called trapdoorcollector for many years, and he is a real expert.
The info on that site has moved to the ArmsCollector site, a source of lots of good info on may types of antique arms, and if you follow this link, you will see on this page his hot linked listing of all the variations, and good solid info.

The U.S. Springfield Trapdoor Rifle Information Center

THIS SITE SPECIALIZES IN: (1) TRAPDOOR SPRINGFIELD RIFLES & CARBINES, 1865-1893; (2) INDIAN WAR & SPAN-AM WAR: U.S SPRINGFIELD TRAPDOOR ARMS; (3) 1865-1893 MILITARY: BAYONETS, KNIVES, ENTRENCHING TOOLS/TROWELS, MILLS & PRAIRIE BELTS, MCKEEVER / DYER POUCHES & CARBINE BOOTS.

www.armscollectors.com

I believe he no longer sells or maintains classified ads, but if you look at the ad section, you will see lots of informative photos. But start with his excellent listings of all the details about each model and variation

 

[Folson]

Hello All Thanks for all the wishes. Hope xmas was great! Thanks for the link and info. I'll post some pics if I can Ha!

 

[Folson]

Hello All Thanks for all the wishes. Hope xmas was great! Thanks for the link and info. I'll post some pics if I can Ha!

Update: I did find that site. And great info. If I am correct and there is not fill where the 3 rd band would be t appears it wourl have to be a Short Rifle or cadet. Unfortunatly there are no measurements other than "Barrel shortened 4" and stock thinned. This rifle is shortened by 4" and I believe a thin wrist. But again it could be a Bannerman also based on some of those descriptions Ha! Confused yet.... I just finisihed watching a Special on Buffalo Soldiers and what was interesting was that there were still photographs that showed 2 band Springfield rifles. Be interesting to find out if these units were issued rifles from the Civil war era with conversions.

 

[Folson]

I've attached some photos. The following notes once disassembled. On the Lock 1864 and 1866 weagle on Breech. The inside of the forearm wood behind second ring XX 1 See pic. The barrel has 11 XX X 1 (underside of Barrel) See pic Left side under lock on Barrel TB B? A under lock on breech. Sight has 3, 5 Hopes this helps for identifying. Thanks to all the experts.

 

[Folson]

Update: Measurements.Band to Band (Center) 11 1/2" Barrel 32",Overall barrel 48",1 st Band (Center of Band) to end of barrel 10 5/8",1 1/2" from center of sidght to end of Barrel, Stock length 43 3/8"

 

[muffinman67]

If you check out Richard Hosmer's .58- and .50- caliber rifles and carbines of the Springfield Armory 1865-1872 from the "for collectors only" series, there's a chapter on the "short" model 1866 rifle. Richard is a member of the Trapdoor discussion group you visited, and would answer any questions you post there. I am far from expert on Trapdoors, but I would guess you rifle is an after market manipulation created from sold off Gov't surplus.

 

[Folson]

Thank you! Sorry for the late reply, been under the weather... Trapdoor discussion on this forum? With the research etc I also seem to agree your assessment. With some of the marks IE the barrel and wood would be great to see if that could be ID'd. Is there a way to contact Mr. Hosmer ? Thanks

 

[bankerpapaw]

Welcome from NW Georgia. Prepare to learn.

 

[Folson]

Thank you I just ordered his book on Collectors for the Springfield 58/50 rifles.

 

[Folson]

WHat's also got me curious are the markings on the Barrel and wood. The XX1 Barrel and wood)and TB (I think its a B) on Barrel (see pics)

 

[Folson]

I think I mentioned it before that I just ordered the book by Robert Hosmer. But today I am also watching the History channel. Today being MLK Day they are showing programs of the Buffalo Soldiers. Whats interesting is that the soldiers doing the Indian wars and also when they were on the border during the punitive expedition 2 Band Breechloaders? Clearing seen in the photos.