Springfield 1816, odd configuration.

Scrubby

Private
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Picked this up at my local GS yesterday. Represented as a parts gun, I carefully disassembled it, hoping to reveal and then decipher any markings or stamps. The barrel measures 29.75" from breech plug to muzzle, but has a bayonet lug? Barrel resembles a Lorenz about the breech, but the sight dovetail and location are unusual. There is a stamp on the left side of the breech, reads '1854' as well as some other letters/numbers adjacent. Lock and hammer are conversion 1816 typical but no marks are visible on the outside of lockplate. Inside of the lockplate there are several different numbers and proof stamps, inspector marks I've included some pictures here to show them.
Then the odd Tanner and Company trigger guard. The ramrod shows rough working to shorten it perhaps? The spring to capture it in the normal 1816 style is present. Intrigued by it's size and mismatched furnishings. Buttplate and screws look as if they've been together for a very long time. The repair at the wrist is pretty old as well. The cheek relief cut out of the stock looks pretty old as well. So, some pictures.
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Taking a closer look at the lock and hammer, I believe that it is a Belgian copy of the French M1822. The lock looks to me that it was originally percussion and was never a flint lock. Also, being made in 1854, it wouldn't have been a flint lock.
I could be mistaken.
 
Taking a closer look at the lock and hammer, I believe that it is a Belgian copy of the French M1822. The lock looks to me that it was originally percussion and was never a flint lock. Also, being made in 1854, it wouldn't have been a flint lock.
I could be mistaken.
The 1854 would likely be the conversion date from flint to percussion. Now that I see the pics instead of trying to use my phone that looks to be a Belgian made arm.
 
The 1854 would likely be the conversion date from flint to percussion. Now that I see the pics instead of trying to use my phone that looks to be a Belgian made arm.[/QUOTe
Thanks for the information about the conversion date. I had assumed that that was the date of manufacture but wondered why it was on the barrel rather than the lock. I see now that it is a conversion. My old eyes are failing me.
 
Lockplate looks consistent with other converted Springfields. Hammer shape, location of the rear sight, and short barrel length are odd. I'll wait a bit, see what information dribbles in, reassembling it for another set of pictures as a complete musket.
 
Picked this up at my local GS yesterday. Represented as a parts gun, I carefully disassembled it, hoping to reveal and then decipher any markings or stamps. The barrel measures 29.75" from breech plug to muzzle, but has a bayonet lug? Barrel resembles a Lorenz about the breech, but the sight dovetail and location are unusual. There is a stamp on the left side of the breech, reads '1854' as well as some other letters/numbers adjacent. Lock and hammer are conversion 1816 typical but no marks are visible on the outside of lockplate. Inside of the lockplate there are several different numbers and proof stamps, inspector marks I've included some pictures here to show them.

Bore diameter?
 
Lockplate looks consistent with other converted Springfields. Hammer shape, location of the rear sight, and short barrel length are odd. I'll wait a bit, see what information dribbles in, reassembling it for another set of pictures as a complete musket.
She's no Springfield but one the was converted to Percussion in Leige. Likely either French or Belgian manufacture. The hammer is really interesting to me with that distinctive shape. I'm going to have to dig into my books when I get home.

Below is my M1861, an arsenal conversion.
M1816 lock.JPG
 
Lockplate looks consistent with other converted Springfields. Hammer shape, location of the rear sight, and short barrel length are odd. I'll wait a bit, see what information dribbles in, reassembling it for another set of pictures as a complete musket.

The lockplate of a US M-1816 does look very much like the lockplate of a French flintlock musket or Belgian copy of a French flintlock musket. The US M-1816 evolved from the US M-1795 which was a copy of the French Charleville M-1763 so the lockplates are similar.
 
Interesting piece but I have to agree it not a Springfield.
 
Infantry rifle 1815/1841 alteration Model Holland


Model Holland 1815 produced 1820 in Liege
Outlawed under the provisional regime (1830) and GP marked ( = provisional regime ) not visible.
Starting at 1830 changed from flint to percussion by the Belgium goverment. Remarked later by the Belgium Government ( GB )
Introduced as Belgium Percussion smoothbore rifle 1841, introduced 1842.
 
Certainly a very interesting piece, and @BBurkett, lovely series. I've encountered a similar piece in the former W. Zearing collection, and immediately noticed the similarities to the 1816. His specimen, a Cone in Barrel conversion, was similarly 'short' and was said to be Belgian in origin.

I'm always amazed at the 'unusual' CW era long arms that turn up. Do you think these arms were used in the CW, or simply represent Federal purchases to keep arms out of Confederate hands?
 
Certainly a very interesting piece, and @BBurkett, lovely series. I've encountered a similar piece in the former W. Zearing collection, and immediately noticed the similarities to the 1816. His specimen, a Cone in Barrel conversion, was similarly 'short' and was said to be Belgian in origin.

I'm always amazed at the 'unusual' CW era long arms that turn up. Do you think these arms were used in the CW, or simply represent Federal purchases to keep arms out of Confederate hands?
A Belgian expert, he himself is Belgian, specifically said those with the sights shown in the pictures were imported for use by the Federals. John Holland, one of the Chief arms inspectors and regulators of the NSSA stated to me that we will honestly never know because the records are so sketchy. 2 of mine have little pitting but the third definitely saw some use. The author David Noe told me that some muskets were dumped on the market in the 1870’s and later and you could purchase one in FINE condition , flint or percussion. I have a copy of the advertising flyer that was presented to me which was non Bannerman which showed some were imported post war
 
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