spencer repeater

[michaellross]

Does anyone know whether the Malcolm scope or similar could be used with a Spencer? Haven't seen a confirmation one way or the other.

 

[BarryR]

Google shows many pixs of that scope on a Spencer....

 

[johan_steele]

I don't see why not but why would you want to unless you're working with a Spencer chambered in a sporting caliber?

I believe some were modified post war into .50-70 but I don't believe there were all that many.

 

[michaellross]

I'm looking for accuracy in writing - my character has an 1865 Spencer, and is a former Confederate sharpshooter. This is after the war. I'm trying to see if it is reasonable for him to be carrying a scope.

 

[johan_steele]

I'm looking for accuracy in writing - my character has an 1865 Spencer, and is a former Confederate sharpshooter. This is after the war. I'm trying to see if it is reasonable for him to be carrying a scope.

I would wonder why. The Spencer cartridge was rather anemic. I could easily see it on a Sharps, especially a Buffalo rifle.

After the war the Spencer was readily available on the surplus market and was generally well liked. But it's accuracy was never up to par as a precision rifle. It's benefit was the magazine, reliability and ability to put 7 rounds down range quickly.

Many precision shooters preferred single shot breech loading arms like the Sharps, Ballard etc.

Also also the Malcom style scopes were rather spendy at the time. For me as a writer or knowledgeable reader I might wonder why the man who can afford such doesn't also have the coin for a first rate precision rifle. The Malcom was also rather fragile when compared to modern optics. For me pairing a scope with a rough tumble Spencer might make me question the authors knowledge.

At the same time there were still real precision muzzle loading rifles out there.

I suppose it has more to do with what you want your former sharpshooter to be doing. Employment for anyone post war was far from certain, especially certain enough to spend on expensive optics and rifles.

Just my two cents.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Michael... Thank You... I've enjoyed many of your books.

But a scope on a Spencer, as Johan_steele suggests is to me like putting a modern Henstoldt scope on a worn out cheap .223. If your character is going to be a "shooter", give him the scope and a great long range rifle. Why not a Whitworth or Kerr or Daw, etc ?

 

[BarryR]

The Pixs I was referring to was a Spencer rifle...I looked themm up again and it was an 1880 Spencer and not the 1860 or 1865 model you are talking about...but my curiosity is up and I'm on the case..!!!

 

[michaellross]

He had a Whitworth during the war - but naturally the Federals took it when they captured him along with Morgan at Buffington Island. After the war, his more wealthy sister "grub staked" him to a start, thus the Spencer. However, since it's fiction, I could easily have him trade the Spencer for a Sharps, which I admit would make some more sense as a long range shooter. I doubt the Whitworth ammunition was readily available on the frontier in the latter 1860s, so looking for a more common rifle. He's headed to Wyoming and Montana.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Michael,
Interesting already. As an aside, one of the rarest Confederate pieces I have in my collection is a "N.C" marked Enfield pattern 1853 rifle musket that came from a family in Idaho, of all places. Give him a Sharps rifle so he can hopefully be a better shot than Quigley.

 

[michaellross]

I would wonder why. The Spencer cartridge was rather anemic. I could easily see it on a Sharps, especially a Buffalo rifle.

After the war the Spencer was readily available on the surplus market and was generally well liked. But it's accuracy was never up to par as a precision rifle. It's benefit was the magazine, reliability and ability to put 7 rounds down range quickly.

Many precision shooters preferred single shot breech loading arms like the Sharps, Ballard etc.

Also also the Malcom style scopes were rather spendy at the time. For me as a writer or knowledgeable reader I might wonder why the man who can afford such doesn't also have the coin for a first rate precision rifle. The Malcom was also rather fragile when compared to modern optics. For me pairing a scope with a rough tumble Spencer might make me question the authors knowledge.

At the same time there were still real precision muzzle loading rifles out there.

I suppose it has more to do with what you want your former sharpshooter to be doing. Employment for anyone post war was far from certain, especially certain enough to spend on expensive optics and rifles.

Just my two cents.

He thinks he's going for R&R, but poor naive guy, he's running into the middle of Red Cloud's war after the blowup at Ft. Laramie in 1866. So yeah, rapid fire and accuracy to 500 yards are both important. His other armament is a Navy Colt.

 

[johan_steele]

He had a Whitworth during the war - but naturally the Federals took it when they captured him along with Morgan at Buffington Island. After the war, his more wealthy sister "grub staked" him to a start, thus the Spencer. However, since it's fiction, I could easily have him trade the Spencer for a Sharps, which I admit would make some more sense as a long range shooter. I doubt the Whitworth ammunition was readily available on the frontier in the latter 1860s, so looking for a more common rifle. He's headed to Wyoming and Montana.

I would suggest giving him a Sharp's rifle. Either an M1859 or M1863 and I wouldn't worry about a scope at all. Both of those rifles are a 700 yard rifle in the hands of a skilled shooter and he would certainly know that.

The Spencer is a 200 yard rifle maybe a touch more in skilled hands and in 1866 was still new enough that they weren't readi yavailable on the surplus market unless purchased from a soldier who had purchased his

Sharps had a pre war reputation for good accuracy and it continued it's rep well after the war with improvements. Instead of Malcom scope I might suggest one of the early Tang sights, the predecessors to the Vernier sights. And if the need for rapid fire was there the Lawrence pellet primer system was there along with the ability to use the more common standard percussion cap. FWIW the Lakota were also quite aware of the Sharp's carbine in particular going to great length to capture them or acquire them when opportunity presented itself.

Not sure about R&R in that area in 1866... the 62 Dakota Uprising was still quite fresh in the minds of those in the region and he would be very quickly cured of any R&R ideas by any locals he might run across.

 

[sourdough]

 

[michaellross]

I would suggest giving him a Sharp's rifle. Either an M1859 or M1863 and I wouldn't worry about a scope at all. Both of those rifles are a 700 yard rifle in the hands of a skilled shooter and he would certainly know that.

The Spencer is a 200 yard rifle maybe a touch more in skilled hands and in 1866 was still new enough that they weren't readi yavailable on the surplus market unless purchased from a soldier who had purchased his

Sharps had a pre war reputation for good accuracy and it continued it's rep well after the war with improvements. Instead of Malcom scope I might suggest one of the early Tang sights, the predecessors to the Vernier sights. And if the need for rapid fire was there the Lawrence pellet primer system was there along with the ability to use the more common standard percussion cap. FWIW the Lakota were also quite aware of the Sharp's carbine in particular going to great length to capture them or acquire them when opportunity presented itself.

Not sure about R&R in that area in 1866... the 62 Dakota Uprising was still quite fresh in the minds of those in the region and he would be very quickly cured of any R&R ideas by any locals he might run across.

Thanks - he's working out a deal with the sutler at Leavenworth for a Sharps.

 

[michaellross]

Any idea what a Sharps would have cost in 1865? Best I can find is ads for the Sharps, but no prices. I'm guessing around $100, but that might be too high.

 

[johan_steele]

Any idea what a Sharps would have cost in 1865? Best I can find is ads for the Sharps, but no prices. I'm guessing around $100, but that might be too high.

I have a price list from the mid 1870's but that's later.

1866 you would be looking at between something like $20-40 for a rifle. Sharps dove right back into the civilian market and was selling both civilian & military models by 1866.