Sharpshooting...

[LtTevis]

Hey all,
Pretty new here so hope I'm posting in the right forum.
Got a few related questions that some here may have insight on.
Were the Berdan Sharpshooters and SC Palmetto Sharpshooters similar in combat performance?
What types of weaponry did these units primarily use, were they similarly effective?
Were they equally trained? What other Sharpshooting units were there?
Any insight is appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[Old Soldier]

In Britain, the Volunteer's first Wimbledon NRA shoot in 1860 tested riflemen up to 600 yards, but there was a marksman challenge that included targets at 800 and 1,000 yards - using issue iron sights in the kneeling position. Target size was 6-foot square with a 5' graduated circle. The only provision was that the rifle fired the standard .577 round. This meant that most of the long-rangers used .577 Whitworths (hex) or Lancasters (oval). As the decade went on, the calibre was relaxed for the long distance shoots, settling on .451 (usually Whitworth) and iron match sights were allowed. The rifles were then categorised as 'military match rifles'.
BTW - Most practice ranges in the UK were set at 1,000 yards too - we were still using them in the 1970s - but the longer range firing points were rather overgrown.

Strensall Ranges (near York) 1900

Queens Prize shoot c 1863

The standard military training was to shoot from 300 - 600 yards to a given standard.

 

[Gordon thorsby]

Hey all,
Pretty new here so hope I'm posting in the right forum.
Got a few related questions that some here may have insight on.
Were the Berdan Sharpshooters and SC Palmetto Sharpshooters similar in combat performance?
What types of weaponry did these units primarily use, were they similarly effective?
Were they equally trained? What other Sharpshooting units were there?
Any insight is appreciated.
Thanks!

The Palmetto Sharpshooters was an infantry regiment from SC and they were some tough boys, many from the Piedmont region of the state. However, it was a simple infantry regiment with no special talent at marksmanship outside any other regiment. Berdan's was a specifically organized group by Berdan with companies gathered from different states and the men had to qualify to make the regiment. They wore a special sharpshooter uniform. I live here in Lancaster SC and about 30 of them enlisted from the town at the beginning of the war.

 

[Specster]

Which simply raises the question as to what source you would consider to be reputable. Accounts of individual sharpshooting black men working for the Confederacy are quite present. They're reported at the Siege of Yorktown (by Berdan's men), at Fort Wagner (by a member of the 4th NH), one is reported by a member of the 17th Maine, a member of the 13th IN reports one at Suffolk, and of course there's Holt Collier.

Were they numerous? Certainly not - many of them may well have been Native American or of mixed Native American and African-descended lineage - but they' have stood out for a very obvious reason.

(information from The History Of Sniping And Sharpshooting)

Why should the color of their skin be a factor in the accuracy of "sharpshooters"?

 

[Saphroneth]

Why should the color of their skin be a factor in the accuracy of "sharpshooters"?

It shouldn't! (Except insofar as they must have had interesting backstories to explain how they were going about armed and how they learned to shoot.) It's just a bit weird and interesting.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

Were they numerous? Certainly not - many of them may well have been Native American or of mixed Native American and African-descended lineage - but they' have stood out for a very obvious reason.

Some too, could have mistakenly been believed to be African American sharpshooters, when in fact they were white Southerners with naturally dark complexions. Can recall, for instance, the Texans engaged in sharpshooting at Devil's Den being described as 'sun-tanned outdoorsmen'. There were also soldiers of Native American and Mexican origins, as well as those of mixed descent, that served in Hood's brigade. As Major John Plaster states in 'Sharpshooting in the Civil War' (at page 13), ..."This could well account for some 'black sharpshooters'."...

 

[Old Soldier]

If you are out in the sun all day, you would be 'dark' too. Why was it a mistake? Why them? Like many frontiersmen, because they practiced - for fun, out of pride, protection and for food. The rifle was used on a regular basis. They were good at it - they only had one shot. They made it count. The Brits were so impressed by the backwoods riflemen during the War of Independence, they copied them. They also respected the Afghan marksmen - as all who have served in Afghanistan would agree - as well as the Boers and their rifles in South Africa. BTW - a few of those Afghans, in the last conflict there, were using Sniders and Martinis as well as SMLEs and still causing death and disruption at 1,000 yards. No rests, no optics, no lasers.

 

[BillO]

This is a 1000 yardshot with a 1942 Russian Rifled sniper rifle with no one shooting at the "Sniper". The bullet is falling over 31 feet in its 1.5 second flight. This guy is shooting repeatedly at a stationary target, is an expert marks man and still having trouble hitting the target. Tell me this was a makable shot in 1862 and I will tend to disagree...even using a "Sharps" rifle and period ammo the tolerances had to be far weaker than a 1942 rifle and round

It depends on what you consider the target. If you try hitting a man at range it's repetition and luck. Generals and even Colonels travelled on horseback in a group. I wouldn't even consider the solitary man a target but if you got 6 to 10 guys with horses in a pile I'm going to start trying to throw some rounds into the pile. Same with the steamboat pushing upstream. I might not be able to aim and hit the pilot but I can throw a couple into the crowded decks.

 

[Saphroneth]

This is a 1000 yardshot with a 1942 Russian Rifled sniper rifle with no one shooting at the "Sniper". The bullet is falling over 31 feet in its 1.5 second flight. This guy is shooting repeatedly at a stationary target, is an expert marks man and still having trouble hitting the target. Tell me this was a makable shot in 1862 and I will tend to disagree...

It depends on your definition of "makable shot" as well as your definition of the target. British 1st Class shots with a .577 Enfield could hit a 6 foot high target area about 1 time in 4 to 1 time in 5 at a distance of 900 yards.

That's really useful against formed infantry, and it's about 20-50 times higher than the average hit rate in US Civil War firefights mostly taking place at 150 yards or less. If a wing of 300 1st-class shots can expend 20 shots each over the course of a quarter of an hour, and in so doing inflict about 1200-1500 wounding hits on a formed brigade of infantry at 900 yards (i.e. basically destroying it).


The target has changed by the mid 20th century.

Certainly, hitting one time in five doesn't sound impressive - but even one time in twenty is still useful if you can do it from a range without counterfire, and the more people can do it the more it becomes a statistics game. In 1870 French volleys wrecked Prussian platoon columns and forced them to stop advancing at 900 paces - and that was the Prussian Guards!