Sharps conversions. Which models and what happened?

[LeadShark]

I know a number of 1859/63 Sharps carbines were converted to centerfire. What I'd like to know is, if the same happened to the normal rifles and the "Berdan" Sharps rifles with set trigger.

If so, does anybody have any information what happened to those rifles afterwards? Were they just sold as surplus once the decision was made to go with the Trapdoor conversions for the Springfield? Are there any surviving examples of those converted full-stock rifles?

 

[JOHN42768]

Take a look in the search field for Sharp's Conversions. At the end of the Civil War the gov't had a glut of 1859 & 1863 Sfarps Carbines that were percussion. With the metallic cartridges becoming the choice over percussion. There were approx. 31000 carbines and less then 1000 rifles converted to .50-70 cf for use in the Indian Wars before the Trapdoor era came of age.

 

[johan_steele]

The carbines were often heavily used well past obsolescence as arms for scouts and Indian Police. The rifles are another matter. They were tested and issued for a while but then ended up in arsenals and eventually sold as surplus.

 

[UCVRelics]

Many of the rifles were converted to several different sizes after the war for military use and for civilian use as well.

 

[LeadShark]

The carbines were often heavily used well past obsolescence as arms for scouts and Indian Police. The rifles are another matter. They were tested and issued for a while but then ended up in arsenals and eventually sold as surplus.

That's interesting. I wonder if the same applied to those with the set trigger and whether or not there is a surviving piece. Would be cool to see I bet.
And it sounds about right that the carbine were used until they were used up.

Many of the rifles were converted to several different sizes after the war for military use and for civilian use as well.

Will have to try and read up on it a bit more. Thank you.

 

[gc45]

There quit a few carbines today but almost no rifles survived. There are two I know of in closed collections meaning, not for anyone to see. I have/had a carbine conversion that was in very high condition and for many years it shot so very well I had to use it on occasion. The chamber was 50-70.

 

[rerobins]

This seems like a good question though probably isn't. I would think the packing of powder would be an issue in a breech loader since a soft cartridge is loaded rather loosely into the breech, with no opportunity to ram home like with a muzzle loader. Doesn't a tightly packed load mean more efficient combustion?

 

[Booner]

This seems like a good question though probably isn't. I would think the packing of powder would be an issue in a breech loader since a soft cartridge is loaded rather loosely into the breech, with no opportunity to ram home like with a muzzle loader. Doesn't a tightly packed load mean more efficient combustion?

I'm not really sure what your question is. By a soft cartridge do you mean a cartridge with a combustible linen or paper wrapping that contains the powder verses a muzzle loaded cartridge where one has the opportunity to seat the bullet hard up against the powder and, which system of loading would provide a better combustion and/or more velocity?

With the muzzleloader, you can pour more powder down the bore which should provide a higher velocity up to a point than you can with the breechloader which has a chamber which limits the amount of powder it can hold, (assuming you don't put so much powder down the bore of the muzzleloader to the point of either blowing up the gun or unburnt powder blowing out of the muzzle). So, the advantage of obtaining a higher velocity and longer range probably goes to the muzzleloader.

However, it's nice to hit what you're aiming at, and that would go to the breechloader. Its bullet was mechanically fitted into the bore of the rifle which allowed for better concentricity, meaning the bullet was better centered in the bore verses the undersized bullet of the muzzleloader.

From my experience with shooting black powder cartridge rifles, where you mechanically compress the powder charge in the case before seating a bullet, I do think you get a better, more complete combustion with compressed powder. But then, I was using magnum primers, so that may have helped a bit too.

 

[gc45]

Well, compressed black powder is better IMO, more consistent I think. The linen ammo was twisted tightly and sealed with some sort of glue like stuff, it was then cut off when raising the breech block via the under lever exposing the powder to be ignited vie the wafer or cap when the hammer fell.
Having shot thousands plus of black powder cartridges in my Shiloh Sharps 45-100 I would tell you the barrel quality and the bullet fit (tight) into the chamber area and seated up very close if not touching the barrels Lands (groves) were the most important where accuracy was concerned. One would think Berdan worked out the proper powder charge, bullet weight and bullet shape to makes these special rifles perform their best followed by having men who could aim, hold steady, and squeeze the trigger in such a manor that their intended target was in serious trouble..My Shiloh Rifle is very capable of long range shooting and the Berdan rifles if well made would easily be up to their intended task..

 

[7thWisconsin]

A lot of Sharps rifle still in the inventory in 1870 were sold to France when they had to rebuild their army after the disaster at Metz.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

A lot of Sharps rifle still in the inventory in 1870 were sold to France when they had to rebuild their army after the disaster at Metz.

There is a story that a German officer, asked if there was a shortage of arms for the German troops facing the French (who had plenty arms, including these imported surplus arms from America), replied that the Germans expected to resupply from the arms dropped by the French as they turned and ran from the battlefield!

 

[gc45]

There is a story that a German officer, asked if there was a shortage of arms for the German troops facing the French (who had plenty arms, including these imported surplus arms from America), replied that the Germans expected to resupply from the arms dropped by the French as they turned and ran from the battlefield!

That's funny!

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

That's funny!

There seems to be a long history of insults exchanged between the French and the Germans, and the British and everyone else.