SCV Poll

[NH Civil War Gal]

I didn't know the south's roles in the rev. until I read this book. Mainly because there weren't many(books) . Then I found a relative who fought at the battle of kings Mt. Which was amazing . His Uncle was Gen. John Neville (whiskey Rebellion )from the Pittsburgh area. So I'm sure I have Yankee Cousins Too!

I joined for the honor and the history. I don't care about the bar but you obviously haven't hung around many fraternal type organizations if you think they don't care about the paraphernalia!

I was going to paste the picture in but…. Then I saw it was copyrighted and you have to buy the stock photo. Google "pictures of DAR sashes" and you will see the GOLD.

Edited: I think, sometimes, these organizations are also an excuse to dress up (if you like to really dress up) and live in an alternate universe for a while. I had an uncle who belonged to EVERYTHING. He and his wife never had children so they could join everything and were out all the time to meetings, no matter how far flung.

In his older years, as a widower, my parents stayed with him with winter because my mother had a teaching job in that part of the state - it saved my mother a long commute and eased Uncle Maurice's loneliness. Nothing surprised her more, thinking someone broke into the house, when who should it be but "Little Napoleon" coming back home at 1:30 AM with his tricorn hat, sword and feeling no pain in 1978 at over 80-years-old and driving over 100 miles to attend one of these meetings.

 

[TallTallMan]

I would be more eager to join if they weren't activists. They say they are "non-political" but really they are. There's nothing wrong with Heritage--I am not ashamed and never will be of my CSA ancestors even though I'm glad they lost--but the SCV goes too far. Maybe if W.D. Kennedy wasn't Chief of Heritage Operations; that may be the problem...

On the other hand I don't list them as a hate group, as much as supposed "connections" to hate groups in the past. Do we really want to go there

 

[G Low]

There were very few set piece battles in the Carolinas but I would argue that the war was won in Virginia but it all started to come together in the Carolinas. (Saratoga not withstanding) We have Siege of Charleston, Cowpens, Kings Mountain, Camden, Guildford Courthouse, et. al in the Carolinas. We are rich in Revolutionary history. I think that Lexington, Concord, Bunker Hill, and some of Washingon's battles just are the ones that get a lot more play in schools.

And remember Georgia still had the Indians to contend with after the Revolution. Got cousins that were on the trail of tears. You want to read something interesting, try "going snake massacre " Polly Beck was a cousin.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

I'm good with that and share your feeling about my state vs the country. I personally would put some allegiance to my region after my state as the states of my region are similar in many ways and citizens travel to adjacent states frequently.

It would have to be regional here - the states are so small. In less than 45 minutes I'm in Massachusetts or in an hour in Vermont or Maine. Two hours I'm in Canada. Do I swear my allegiance to Northern Massachusetts but not to Southie in Revere (the Irish Riviera? ) It gets pretty stupid, pretty quickly. That's why the UNITED is in front of States. All of the New England states and some of the Mid-Atlantic ones are in the same pickle.

 

[G Low]

I would be more eager to join if they weren't activists. They say they are "non-political" but really they are. There's nothing wrong with Heritage--I am not ashamed and never will be of my CSA ancestors even though I'm glad they lost--but the SCV goes too far. Maybe if W.D. Kennedy wasn't Chief of Heritage Operations, that may be the problem...

On the other hand I don't list them as a hate group, as much as supposed "connections" to hate groups in the past. Do we really want to go there

What is going on now is a minority of people (confederate descendants) are having an uneducated Majority destroy, dig up and desecrate their (our) monuments and Memorials . Who is the hate group?

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

I would be more eager to join if they weren't activists. They say they are "non-political" but really they are. There's nothing wrong with Heritage--I am not ashamed and never will be of my CSA ancestors even though I'm glad they lost--but the SCV goes too far. Maybe if W.D. Kennedy wasn't Chief of Heritage Operations, that may be the problem...

On the other hand I don't list them as a hate group, as much as supposed "connections" to hate groups in the past. Do we really want to go there

I don't think you should ever be ashamed of your CSA ancestors. I like most of them! I find a lot of them to be men of honor. I don't always understand the decisions the highly educated made from the military institutes like West Point after taking their oaths, but sometimes I do.

Then you have the low bred ones, the common ugly ones, the users and abusers - but guess what - the Northerners did too and I think in equal numbers.

And a great many in between ones. I find it fascinating that the War made a Nathan Bedford Forrest. Without the War he would have just been a slave trader, probably forever, if slave trading were to continue. His wife and the War changed him and for the better. I would be deathly afraid to meet him but I admire a lot about him. I greatly admire Mosby and have read a great deal about him. I would never be ashamed of these people or the lowly soldier doing his best just to survive.

My husband has both sides in his ancestry and a breeding plantation in his ancestry which he is not proud of. I don't think I'd point to that with pride either, but my husband didn't make it or contribute to it. But it is what it is and we learn from it and move on. But he sure isn't going to take a pledge hoping it will come back either.

 

[TallTallMan]

What is going on now is a minority of people (confederate descendants) are having an uneducated Majority destroy, dig up and desecrate their (our) monuments and Memorials . Who is the hate group?

I said they weren't a hate group. Who said that?

 

[G Low]

It would have to be regional here - the states are so small. In less than 45 minutes I'm in Massachusetts or in an hour in Vermont or Maine. Two hours I'm in Canada. Do I swear my allegiance to Northern Massachusetts but not to Southie in Revere (the Irish Riviera? ) It gets pretty stupid, pretty quickly. That's why the UNITED is in front of States. All of the New England states and some of the Mid-Atlantic ones are in the same pickle.

I said they weren't a hate group. Who said that?

I am saying the uneducated majority is the hate group .

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Are you attacking the SCV's little, really harmless, salute to the Confederacy?

I take pledges, salutes, and oaths very seriously.

Other people don't; that's why the divorce rate is what it is.

Cause I'll take issue on the States one. I don't know about where you live, but here in Texas the Pledge of Allegiance to the State of Texas is ALWAYS recited alongside the US one. Even in schools.

Florida has no Pledge of Allegiance to the state, only the country.

I'd say it's healthy and in line with the founder's vision of this nation on separation of powers. And speaking on a personal level, I care a heck of a lot more about the State I live in and is "closer to home" on effecting my life than the distant "cares more about the rest of the world and money than Americans" USA.

I am a fervent lifelong denier of states rights, Founding Fathers opinions on the matter be damned. States are a convenient way to delineate levels of government. Country, state, county, and city might as well be army, corps, division, and company.

Sovereignty is supreme - wars, treaties, citizenship - or nonexistent.

 

[G Low]

I am saying the uneducated majority is the hate group .

They ( the confederates) weren't Nazis and I don't see the point of erasing them from history.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

What is going on now is a minority of people (confederate descendants) are having an uneducated Majority destroy, dig up and desecrate their (our) monuments and Memorials . Who is the hate group?

Nobody should be digging up or removing anything - ever. Things should have been left and have other placques and information added for more context. I honestly don't know who the hate groups are but it ain't me, a Yankee.

But you alluded to that Yankees didn't think Southerners had fought or knew that Southerners had for for the American Revolution or people now don't realize that - something along those lines - or they aren't learning about the Civil War or American Revolution and learning about the part the Southern states played in it.

I'm going to let you in on something - Plato said something along the lines that "kids these days are no dam good" and he's right. I still work full time but… as a retired NH Election Official - "First In The Nation Primary" and all that? I left in 12/21 after many years doing this - the last BIG election I registered people, I lost count of how many 18 and 20-year-olds who had to call mummy or daddy to find out what city and state where they were born - literally. I never thought I would see the day THAT happened! I live in a college town, presumably they filled out a college application and financial aid paperwork.

It wasn't the majority of kids but an awful lot of them - from college. If they can't be bothered to know what city/state they were born in, I doubt very much they are interested in any military history in general - never mind the BIG reasons about ANY war. So don't look to that group for help for anything. Edited: They aren't digging up anything either. They are too busy playing on their phones.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

I would be more eager to join if they weren't activists. They say they are "non-political" but really they are. There's nothing wrong with Heritage--I am not ashamed and never will be of my CSA ancestors even though I'm glad they lost--but the SCV goes too far. Maybe if W.D. Kennedy wasn't Chief of Heritage Operations; that may be the problem...

On the other hand I don't list them as a hate group, as much as supposed "connections" to hate groups in the past. Do we really want to go there

I will say the DAR is good with the history and they never, ever mention politics - not even slightly. I pay separately for and get "The Spirit" Magazine. It focuses on history all around the country. And like any other groups some groups are very active and others dead. We had a very local group which would be very convenient for me but it was deader than dead. I went to an introductory meeting and honestly, I had to keep pinching my thigh to stay away. They were giving away a $125.00 scholarship that afternoon and they belabored it SO LONG and was the girl REALLY that worthy and did she REALLY show good citizenship - it went on for over two hours - just that one discussion - that I was ready to write the check just to get out of there.

The group I'm in now is far away but is incredibly active and does things with Walter Reed Hospital - I've been in there to their family rooms where we set stuff up - like lots of stuff - for families waiting for people in surgery (when I go down for a December meeting). They also do things around the country.

Yet, there is another DAR group within 20 minutes of them that does nothing really.

All these groups boil down to strong leadership and activism within the community. Some groups focus on hunger with school children and do free lunches everyday of the year with a local center OR you can do it individually and put your hours towards a chapter's "Volunteer" thing they turn into headquarters for something - I don't follow what they do with it. But as long as you are serving the community yourself, with a legitimate activity, you can report that back.

Other DAR groups do stuff as a group as in painting places that need painting or adopting cleanup at a park or animal shelters or visiting veterans.

Does the SVC Camps do anything like this?

 

[TallTallMan]

I will say the DAR is good with the history and they never, ever mention politics - not even slightly. I pay separately for and get "The Spirit" Magazine. It focuses on history all around the country. And like any other groups some groups are very active and others dead. We had a very local group which would be very convenient for me but it was deader than dead. I went to an introductory meeting and honestly, I had to keep pinching my thigh to stay away. They were giving away a $125.00 scholarship that afternoon and they belabored it SO LONG and was the girl REALLY that worthy and did she REALLY show good citizenship - it went on for over two hours - just that one discussion - that I was ready to write the check just to get out of there.

The group I'm in now is far away but is incredibly active and does things with Walter Reed Hospital - I've been in there to their family rooms where we set stuff up - like lots of stuff - for families waiting for people in surgery (when I go down for a December meeting). They also do things around the country.

Yet, there is another DAR group within 20 minutes of them that does nothing really.

All these groups boil down to strong leadership and activism within the community. Some groups focus on hunger with school children and do free lunches everyday of the year with a local center OR you can do it individually and put your hours towards a chapter's "Volunteer" thing they turn into headquarters for something - I don't follow what they do with it. But as long as you are serving the community yourself, with a legitimate activity, you can report that back.

Other DAR groups do stuff as a group as in painting places that need painting or adopting cleanup at a park or animal shelters or visiting veterans.

Does the SVC Camps do anything like this?

The local SCV (both of them ) cleaned up a cemetery recently.

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

I take pledges, salutes, and oaths very seriously.

Other people don't; that's why the divorce rate is what it is.



Florida has no Pledge of Allegiance to the state, only the country.



I am a fervent lifelong denier of states rights, Founding Fathers opinions on the matter be damned. States are a convenient way to delineate levels of government. Country, state, county, and city might as well be army, corps, division, and company.

Sovereignty is supreme - wars, treaties, citizenship - or nonexistent.

Your philosophy is noted and I respect it, and bid you well.

But I did wish to leave you with the question, how can someone as well read on history like yourself take that position? History has shown its flaw over and over throughout all of history. It's absolutist, and absolutism is always doomed. I genuinely would've thought someone such as yourself would be aware. One can just look at the news and see how well it's working for our nation as it pursues the same path so many have before and the end result will be the same. We look back and sift the good from bad ideals from the founders, nothing would be impossible. That is the wisdom of respect and compromise.

But good day, no hostility from me towards you.

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

And therein lies the rub.

Confederates are Americans and veterans, but they fought against the lawful authority of the United States government, with flimsy justification. They are worthy of respect in the sense that anyone willing to risk their life for what they believe in is worthy of respect. But because of what they fought for, and who they fought against, it's hard to justify giving them an equal level of honor with U.S. servicemen.

Should Native Americans warriors who fought against the USA and killed America citizens be equally honored as U.S. servicemen? What about Loyalists in the American Revolution?

What would you think of a Hispanic heritage group that wanted to raise a monument in Texas to the memory of all the Mexican soldiers, including their ancestors, who died in the Texas Revolution and Mexican-American War?

Those examples are very poor analogies. Confederates believed that States voluntarily joined the Union, and that States had the right to leave the Union.

 

[G Low]

I will say the DAR is good with the history and they never, ever mention politics - not even slightly. I pay separately for and get "The Spirit" Magazine. It focuses on history all around the country. And like any other groups some groups are very active and others dead. We had a very local group which would be very convenient for me but it was deader than dead. I went to an introductory meeting and honestly, I had to keep pinching my thigh to stay away. They were giving away a $125.00 scholarship that afternoon and they belabored it SO LONG and was the girl REALLY that worthy and did she REALLY show good citizenship - it went on for over two hours - just that one discussion - that I was ready to write the check just to get out of there.

The group I'm in now is far away but is incredibly active and does things with Walter Reed Hospital - I've been in there to their family rooms where we set stuff up - like lots of stuff - for families waiting for people in surgery (when I go down for a December meeting). They also do things around the country.

Yet, there is another DAR group within 20 minutes of them that does nothing really.

All these groups boil down to strong leadership and activism within the community. Some groups focus on hunger with school children and do free lunches everyday of the year with a local center OR you can do it individually and put your hours towards a chapter's "Volunteer" thing they turn into headquarters for something - I don't follow what they do with it. But as long as you are serving the community yourself, with a legitimate activity, you can report that back.

Other DAR groups do stuff as a group as in painting places that need painting or adopting cleanup at a park or animal shelters or visiting veterans.

Does the SVC Camps do anything like this?

I'm glad there are organizations like the DAR . My mother was in the DAR, and the UDC. Could have joined the Mayflower society too. I mean Next they are going to dig up the pilgrims because they were religious persecuters.( they were but what difference does that make) Some of my ancestors landed on Plymouth Rock too , but I don't hold it against them ( being Yankees and all)

 

[G Low]

Those examples are very poor analogies. Confederates believed that States voluntarily joined the Union, and that States had the right to leave the Union.

That's right at least that's what politicians led everyone (the southerners) to believe. If that's what they were fighting for it's good enough for me( having confederate ancestors) . A lot of people didn't like certain wars and thought they were useless, but we don't hate the soldiers who fought in them nor do we tear down their monuments or dig them up.

 

[JonnyReb_In_MI]

I honestly don't know the backstory, what little I do know I'd guess it's a supposed a holdover from the UCV, which the SCV is supposed to be a successor to.

I supposed because the SCV claims to have been in existence since 1896, but if one looks into it, the original SCV kinda died with the UCV around WW2, (same with SUV) and got resurrected during the Centennial.

Which I take issue with many stubborn numbskulls in the SCV over beliefs like it's been around unchanged since 1896, and that the logo comes from the UCV or dates to 1896, when that alone dates to I think the early 1970's?

SCV history can be incredibly messed up to track….

I don't know what resources you've consulted, but I have been able to document a consistent, continuous operation of the SCV as an organization using digitized records that are accessible online (including but not limited to online newspaper archives).

The SCV now has a book available for purchase that gives brief bios on every Commander-in-Chief since the beginning until now (which my own research that I did before the book was published has verified as accurate).

... as for the SCV logo, it doesn't go back to 1896 but it does go back at least to the 1920s; a picture of it is in the yearbook & minutes of the 31st SCV Reunion from 1926.

 

[G Low]

I don't think you should ever be ashamed of your CSA ancestors. I like most of them! I find a lot of them to be men of honor. I don't always understand the decisions the highly educated made from the military institutes like West Point after taking their oaths, but sometimes I do.

Then you have the low bred ones, the common ugly ones, the users and abusers - but guess what - the Northerners did too and I think in equal numbers.

And a great many in between ones. I find it fascinating that the War made a Nathan Bedford Forrest. Without the War he would have just been a slave trader, probably forever, if slave trading were to continue. His wife and the War changed him and for the better. I would be deathly afraid to meet him but I admire a lot about him. I greatly admire Mosby and have read a great deal about him. I would never be ashamed of these people or the lowly soldier doing his best just to survive.

My husband has both sides in his ancestry and a breeding plantation in his ancestry which he is not proud of. I don't think I'd point to that with pride either, but my husband didn't make it or contribute to it. But it is what it is and we learn from it and move on. But he sure isn't going to take a pledge hoping it will come back either.

If you haven't heard yet NBF was a cousin of mine. He was a most respected slave trader. But he was a slave trader. It is said 45 colored troops left to go with him and 44 returned with him after the war.He was not seeking fame or fortune, just doing what he thought was right. I'm still mad about his grave , no one asked me about it. I would have thought you being from NH (live free or die) would understand about states rights. And how Texans feel.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

pilgrims because they were religious persecuters

That's why we have Rhode Island!