Revolver Question

[Sowbelly and Hardtack]

Most studio portraits show handguns which are most likely studio props.

I don't believe most Civil War soldiers were proficient with a handgun.

Now I'm speaking for myself and what I did. Also keep in mind I didn't serve in the Civil War. While I'm proficient with a handgun, I chose not to carry one in Vietnam. I only carried my Browning Hi-Power on rare occasions. I preferred to carry more 5.56 mm ammo and or grenades.

 

[Patrick H]

I enjoyed watching the demonstration video in post #20. While the host was unable to pattern a tight group with his Colt revolver at a gallop, he DID score a number of hits that would have wounded an opposing soldier. It is known that guerrilla fighters often fought mounted, and that they down-loaded their chambers to conserve powder and lessen recoil. It is also known that many of them were excellent instinctive marksmen. But the original topic was revolvers and ordinary foot soldiers. I agree with the majority here that a revolver simply wouldn't have been practical for an infantry soldier in most cases.

 

[Joe Whitworth]

Bill Hickock wasn't on a battlefield. To be 'drilled with a 1851 Navy' would mean the guy with the pistol would have had to survive the artillery barrage, several volleys of rifle fire - and bayonets AND be able to hit you where it hurts - if he hadn't fired off all the chambers first - that is before you lodged your bayonet or sword in his gut. There are many reports of all six being shot at close range into an attacker who still managed to kill or injure the shooter.

Keep trying. God Bless Sam Colt and John Moses Browning.

 

[Old Soldier]

Keep trying. God Bless Sam Colt and John Moses Browning.

Don't have to try. Written evidence. Adams and Tranter were well ahead of Colt. Browning was too.

 

[Joe Whitworth]

Don't have to try. Written evidence. Adams and Tranter were well ahead of Colt. Browning was too.

Their guns were ugly. The Paterson's design was also patented in England and France in 1836 and you can still buy a new Colt Back on track, the vast amount of pistols and bullets recovered by metal detecting along with the huge numbers of surviving specimens seems to indicate a lot of guys had pistols regardless of regulation and opinion. How well most could use them is still debatable though. Smacking the steel Davis Tutt gong at 75 yards on my own range with a Colt .36 or .44 cap and ball revolver isn't that hard but being retired I can practice a lot Those unfamiliar with the cap and ball revolvers tend to sell them short both in ballistics and accuracy. My favorite .36 Navy will hold it's own with my S&W .38 Target Masterpiece. While slow to reload the first 6 are still effective even by todays standards, who wants to stop what's essentially a lead slug from a .38 Special? BTW if you're ever over here I invite you to stop by and shoot abit.

 

[Pollaco]

You are right, the ball or bullet from a .36 cap and ball is basically the same chunk of lead that comes from a .38 or .357 magnum. It isn't going to bounce off of you no matter how tough you think you are.

 

[Old Soldier]

You are right, the ball or bullet from a .36 cap and ball is basically the same chunk of lead that comes from a .38 or .357 magnum. It isn't going to bounce off of you no matter how tough you think you are.

But the propellant is no longer black powder. BTW - Ugly or not they were preferred to Colts in the British Forces.

 

[Joe Whitworth]

Baloney, powder type is a non-issue. According to the National Institute of Health for a bullet to perforate the skin and enter the underlying subcutaneous tissue and muscle a minimum velocity in the order of 230 ft./second is required. A .38 Special loaded with 18 grains of FFg black powder and a 158 grain bullet yields a muzzle velocity of 820 feet per second, the same as 4.5 grains of the more energetic double nitrocellulose based smokeless "Unique". Try again.

 

[1950lemans]

I do know that those who joined the navy sometimes brought along their personal pistols and were allowed to keep them. Many were single-shot "boot" pistols or Pepperbox style. Some were revolvers. When they found the MONITOR there were pistols found in the turret. If you Google the USS CAIRO or Vicksburg National Military Park you'll see items from the sunken US ship. You'll see many types of unofficial pistols that were found.

 

[Old Soldier]

Baloney, powder type is a non-issue. According to the National Institute of Health for a bullet to perforate the skin and enter the underlying subcutaneous tissue and muscle a minimum velocity in the order of 230 ft./second is required. A .38 Special loaded with 18 grains of FFg black powder and a 158 grain bullet yields a muzzle velocity of 820 feet per second, the same as 4.5 grains of the more energetic double nitrocellulose based smokeless "Unique". Try again.

If it is a non issue why are we told NOT to use smokeless powder in breech-loading rifles designed for black powder catridges?

 

[Story]

I do know that those who joined the navy sometimes brought along their personal pistols and were allowed to keep them. Many were single-shot "boot" pistols or Pepperbox style. Some were revolvers. When they found the MONITOR there were pistols found in the turret. If you Google the USS CAIRO or Vicksburg National Military Park you'll see items from the sunken US ship. You'll see many types of unofficial pistols that were found.

Navy guys were more likely to need the firepower for/against boarding parties, but I'm thinking the ship's officers might have had concerns about rum-fueled gambling disputes.

 

[Story]

Now I'm speaking for myself and what I did. Also keep in mind I didn't serve in the Civil War. While I'm proficient with a handgun, I chose not to carry one in Vietnam. I only carried my Browning Hi-Power on rare occasions. I preferred to carry more 5.56 mm ammo and or grenades.

Fast forward to Iraq, same-same. We were a dual-carry Infantry Battalion but short on M9s. I gave mine up to some kid in one of the rifle companies working the ECP, since I preferred schlepping my M4 around. I only left the FOB for meetings up in Camp Liberty and usually riding shotgun for some female officer (in which case I had a purse of six spare 30 round mags).

/Memory Lane Story Ends./​

 

[Joe Whitworth]

If it is a non issue why are we told NOT to use smokeless powder in breech-loading rifles designed for black powder catridges?

It was a non issue in the civil war, you're grasping at straws now. Many black powder cartridges are offered today with smokeless loadings. How about the 45-70, 45 Colt, 44-40, 38-40 and the 32-20 to name a few? Even your .303 started life as a black powder round. Try again.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Early on some newly formed infantry units were given "fighting knives" & pistols by doting home folks. Like Appalachian Trail through hikers who cut off the handles of their toothbrushes, soldiers soon left pistols, big knives, & all manner of detritus on the side of the road. They wouldn't even carry bayonets.

Combat soldiers soon realized that pistols were decorator items for officers.

At the end of WWII the British did a lot of testing. They found that the circular error of veteran officers at 20 yards was the size of a barn door.

People who study Civil War photographers can recognize individual studios by the prop weapons. A large pepper box pistol is a dead give away, apparently.

 

[Old Soldier]

People who study Civil War photographers can recognize individual studios by the prop weapons. A large pepper box pistol is a dead give away, apparently.

Note that the pistol in his hand is one of those 'ugly' British pistols - a small caliber Beaumont-Adams. Did they keep those knives?

 

[Kurtlg]

It was a non issue in the civil war, you're grasping at straws now. Many black powder cartridges are offered today with smokeless loadings. How about the 45-70, 45 Colt, 44-40, 38-40 and the 32-20 to name a few? Even your .303 started life as a black powder round. Try again.

Perhaps there is some confusion because of the loads. The original Colt .45 used 28 to 40 grains of black powder. Much smaller loads of smokeless powder are used.

 

[Pollaco]

I think the weight and size of a little pocket model Colt would have been tolerated by foot soldiers had they been more available.

 

[Pollaco]

I think the weight and size of a little pocket model Colt would have been tolerated by foot soldiers had they been more available.

I don't completely buy that story about Infantry throwing away or getting rid of knives and pistols because their weight interfered with their marching. These were young healthy men who could put up with a few pounds of iron.

 

[Rhea Cole]

I think the weight and size of a little pocket model Colt would have been tolerated by foot soldiers had they been more available.

You mean soldiers that would not even carry bayonets? It wasn't just the pistol, it was the bullet mold, bullet pouch, powder flask, grease & tiny caps. Not to mention all the those gee-gaws had to be held in a waterproof pouch.

The pouch did have one advantage, it was effortless to throw it all away.

 

[Pollaco]

There must have been some people who made a killing by following marching armies and picking up waterproof pouches.