Random Thoughts Thread

Waterloo50

Major
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
England
A short tribute to my relative Mary Eliza Russell (1827-1899)

I was working on my family tree again today and found a very sad story about a relative of mine, she died in the Union Work House in Bath England. I didn't know very much about the work house and what I found shocked me.

Life was meant to be much tougher inside the workhouse than outside, and the buildings themselves were deliberately grim & intimidating - they were designed to look like prisons. They were full of illness & disease brought about by over-crowding & the starvation diet. When you were admitted to the workhouse, you were stripped, searched, washed & had your hair cropped. You were made to wear a prison-style uniform. Women were at all times kept separate from the men, including their husbands. Children were kept separately from adults - even from their own parents. A well known story tells how a labourer gave notice to leave the workhouse with his wife & children - only to be told: "You cannot take your wife out. We buried her three weeks ago". In one instance, a girl aged 15 years died in the workhouse. Her records showed that she was born in the workhouse & had never been outside the place.

After rising at 5am (in summer), an inmate worked 7-12am and 1-6pm; which is a 10 hour working day. Bed was 8pm. As well as gardening, cooking & sewing, there was corn milling, sack making, oakum picking (unravelling short lengths of rope) & crushing stone. Bones were crushed by hand to make fertiliser. Sometimes the inmates were so hungry that they would pick scraps of flesh off the bones and eat it. The bones were not all animal bones either! all meals were taken in silence, and no cutlery was provided - inmates had to use their fingers. And the meals were kept dull, predictable & tasteless. There were 6 official diets which were so meagre that they were described as "a slow process of starvation".

A poem written by a lady in the Union Work House.

Since I cannot, dear sister, with you hold communion,
I'll give you a sketch of our life in the union.
But how to begin I don't know, I declare:
Let me see: well, the first is our grand bill of fare.
We've skilly for breakfast; at night bread and cheese,
And we eat it and then go to bed if you please.
Two days in the week we have puddings for dinner,
And two, we have broth, so like water but thinner;
Two, meat and potatoes, of this none to spare;
One day, bread & cheese - and this is our fare.

And now then my clothes I will try to portray;
They're made of coarse cloth and the colour is grey,
My jacket and waistcoat don't fit me at all;
My shirt is too short, or I am too tall;
My shoes are not pairs, though of course I have two,
They are down at heel and my stockings are blue ...
A sort of Scotch bonnet we wear on our heads,
And I sleep in a room where there are fourteen beds.
Some are sleeping, some are snoring, some talking, some playing,
Some fighting, some swearing, but very few praying.
Here are nine at a time who work on the mill;
We take it in turns so it never stands still:
A half hour each gang, so 'tis not very hard,
And when we are off we can walk in the yard ...


I sometimes look up at the bit of blue sky
High over my head, with a tear in my eye.
Surrounded by walls that are too high to climb,
Confined like a felon without any crime,
Not a field nor a house nor a hedge I can see -
Not a plant, not a flower, nor a bush nor a tree ...
But I'm getting, I find, too pathetic by half,
And my object was only to cause you to laugh;
So my love to yourself, your husband and daughter,
I'll drink to your health with a tin of cold water:
Of course, we've no wine, not porter, nor beer,
So you see that we all are teetotallers here.
 
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Although my great grandfather died in the Civil War I have never felt much connection to him. My own grandfather never met him and to the best of my knowledge never even mentioned his name to me. I don't think my grandfather ever said anything about his own father and I don't believe I ever heard my mother say anything her grandfather on that side. Why should I care about my great great-grandfather's Civil War service? So he died during the war, lots of men die during a war.
 
Girl Scout cookie time. I bought a box of Thin Mints but they did not work. I ate the whole box and did not get one bit thinner.
 
A short tribute to my relative Mary Eliza Russell (1827-1899)

I was working on my family tree again today and found a very sad story about a relative of mine, she died in the Union Work House in Bath England. I didn't know very much about the work house and what I found shocked me.

Life was meant to be much tougher inside the workhouse than outside, and the buildings themselves were deliberately grim & intimidating - they were designed to look like prisons. They were full of illness & disease brought about by over-crowding & the starvation diet. When you were admitted to the workhouse, you were stripped, searched, washed & had your hair cropped. You were made to wear a prison-style uniform. Women were at all times kept separate from the men, including their husbands. Children were kept separately from adults - even from their own parents. A well known story tells how a labourer gave notice to leave the workhouse with his wife & children - only to be told: "You cannot take your wife out. We buried her three weeks ago". In one instance, a girl aged 15 years died in the workhouse. Her records showed that she was born in the workhouse & had never been outside the place.

After rising at 5am (in summer), an inmate worked 7-12am and 1-6pm; which is a 10 hour working day. Bed was 8pm. As well as gardening, cooking & sewing, there was corn milling, sack making, oakum picking (unravelling short lengths of rope) & crushing stone. Bones were crushed by hand to make fertiliser. Sometimes the inmates were so hungry that they would pick scraps of flesh off the bones and eat it. The bones were not all animal bones either! all meals were taken in silence, and no cutlery was provided - inmates had to use their fingers. And the meals were kept dull, predictable & tasteless. There were 6 official diets which were so meagre that they were described as "a slow process of starvation".

A poem written by a lady in the Union Work House.

Since I cannot, dear sister, with you hold communion,
I'll give you a sketch of our life in the union.
But how to begin I don't know, I declare:
Let me see: well, the first is our grand bill of fare.
We've skilly for breakfast; at night bread and cheese,
And we eat it and then go to bed if you please.
Two days in the week we have puddings for dinner,
And two, we have broth, so like water but thinner;
Two, meat and potatoes, of this none to spare;
One day, bread & cheese - and this is our fare.

And now then my clothes I will try to portray;
They're made of coarse cloth and the colour is grey,
My jacket and waistcoat don't fit me at all;
My shirt is too short, or I am too tall;
My shoes are not pairs, though of course I have two,
They are down at heel and my stockings are blue ...
A sort of Scotch bonnet we wear on our heads,
And I sleep in a room where there are fourteen beds.
Some are sleeping, some are snoring, some talking, some playing,
Some fighting, some swearing, but very few praying.
Here are nine at a time who work on the mill;
We take it in turns so it never stands still:
A half hour each gang, so 'tis not very hard,
And when we are off we can walk in the yard ...


I sometimes look up at the bit of blue sky
High over my head, with a tear in my eye.
Surrounded by walls that are too high to climb,
Confined like a felon without any crime,
Not a field nor a house nor a hedge I can see -
Not a plant, not a flower, nor a bush nor a tree ...
But I'm getting, I find, too pathetic by half,
And my object was only to cause you to laugh;
So my love to yourself, your husband and daughter,
I'll drink to your health with a tin of cold water:
Of course, we've no wine, not porter, nor beer,
So you see that we all are teetotallers here.

That is very sad, Waterloo. Tough places and people there for nothing but being poor. Nelson used to take kids out of places like that to train them on the ships - they learned some trade like carpentry or sail making or sewing to make a living without being a sailor. John Merrick, aka the Elephant Man, ended up in one after his job as a door to door salesman failed...can't imagine why! They wanted to do all the bath and etc, especially the mask. He assured them they really didn't want to do that...they agreed after they did it... :eek: That's why he went into the freak show business even though it was being outlawed at the time.
 
I was working on my family tree again today and found a very sad story about a relative of mine, she died in the Union Work House in Bath England. I didn't know very much about the work house and what I found shocked me.

Can you explain what this was? Who was there and why?
 
That is very sad, Waterloo. Tough places and people there for nothing but being poor. Nelson used to take kids out of places like that to train them on the ships - they learned some trade like carpentry or sail making or sewing to make a living without being a sailor. John Merrick, aka the Elephant Man, ended up in one after his job as a door to door salesman failed...can't imagine why! They wanted to do all the bath and etc, especially the mask. He assured them they really didn't want to do that...they agreed after they did it... :eek: That's why he went into the freak show business even though it was being outlawed at the time.

Those work houses still stand today, they were so well built that they have stood the test of time. Just about every English town and village had a work house, you normally find them situated on the outskirts of the town. Today they are turned in to trendy apartments for the wealthy. You can normally tell if a building was used as a work house because the date of its opening will be carved into a stone lintel above the door.
It wasn't unusual for young lads to be join either the army or the Navy by way of the work house, legal guardianship of the child was held by a board of guardians and their responsibility for the child ended when the child became 16 years old but these so called guardians had normally sent the child of to work much earlier, sometimes they could be sent into employment at the age of 7 years old.
What is interesting is that many children were sent onto to Royal Navy training ships which may well explain why Nelson became involved, on the one hand he could save a child from poverty and the terrors of the work house whilst at the same time being able to pick the most capable candidates for the Navy. Being the cynic that I am, I wonder if Nelson was being looked upon favourably because of who he was but in reality he was just doing what others in the RN had been doing for years and that was scouring the work houses for new recruits. The way I interpret things is that the RN training ships were really just an extension of the work house.
 
Can you explain what this was? Who was there and why?

It was a relative of mine that for whatever reason ended up in a work house. During the 1800s, we had a law which was known as the 'Poor Law amendment Act of 1834 but the Act began back in the mid 1700s', it basically made being poor and destitute illegal. People were no longer able to be homeless, they could be arrested for vagrancy and begging could bring a jail sentence. Under the poor law act the State took responsibility for the poor and the homeless but this new law wasn't motivated by charity or compassion. What it really was, was an attempt to remove the poor from the streets, lock them up in compounds and make them work for their food. A big part of the work house was its religious instruction and work ethic. Inmates were made to study core Christian values for at least 3 hours per day, anyone caught breaking work house rules could be kicked out onto the street for the slightest transgression, if that happened one of two things would happen, you either starved or you went to prison, the other option was to find work but in some areas employment was scarce, if you were caught stealing food you could be deported. Those work houses were nothing more than farms 'human farms' the upper classes kept the poor fed, watered and sheltered and then they put them to back braking work with zero cost to themselves.

A list of work house rules and punishments, I can't read it without it making my blood boil.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/life/rules.shtml
 
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I just finished my Sunday afternoon music "hour" of Beethoven's 3rd Symphony and Chopin's 1st piano concerto. Aside from sentimental ballads and marching tunes, I wonder what was the favorite music of the Civil War soldiers.
 
That Poem again.

A poem written by a lady in the Work House.

Since I cannot, dear sister, with you hold communion,
I'll give you a sketch of our life in the union.
But how to begin I don't know, I declare:
Let me see: well, the first is our grand bill of fare.
We've skilly for breakfast; at night bread and cheese,
And we eat it and then go to bed if you please.
Two days in the week we have puddings for dinner,
And two, we have broth, so like water but thinner;
Two, meat and potatoes, of this none to spare;
One day, bread & cheese - and this is our fare.

And now then my clothes I will try to portray;
They're made of coarse cloth and the colour is grey,
My jacket and waistcoat don't fit me at all;
My shirt is too short, or I am too tall;
My shoes are not pairs, though of course I have two,
They are down at heel and my stockings are blue ...
A sort of Scotch bonnet we wear on our heads,
And I sleep in a room where there are fourteen beds.
Some are sleeping, some are snoring, some talking, some playing,
Some fighting, some swearing, but very few praying.
Here are nine at a time who work on the mill;
We take it in turns so it never stands still:
A half hour each gang, so 'tis not very hard,
And when we are off we can walk in the yard ...


I sometimes look up at the bit of blue sky
High over my head, with a tear in my eye.
Surrounded by walls that are too high to climb,
Confined like a felon without any crime,
Not a field nor a house nor a hedge I can see -
Not a plant, not a flower, nor a bush nor a tree ...
But I'm getting, I find, too pathetic by half,
And my object was only to cause you to laugh;
So my love to yourself, your husband and daughter,
I'll drink to your health with a tin of cold water:
Of course, we've no wine, not porter, nor beer,
So you see that we all are teetotallers here.
 
Those work houses still stand today, they were so well built that they have stood the test of time. Just about every English town and village had a work house, you normally find them situated on the outskirts of the town. Today they are turned in to trendy apartments for the wealthy. You can normally tell if a building was used as a work house because the date of its opening will be carved into a stone lintel above the door.
It wasn't unusual for young lads to be join either the army or the Navy by way of the work house, legal guardianship of the child was held by a board of guardians and their responsibility for the child ended when the child became 16 years old but these so called guardians had normally sent the child of to work much earlier, sometimes they could be sent into employment at the age of 7 years old.
What is interesting is that many children were sent onto to Royal Navy training ships which may well explain why Nelson became involved, on the one hand he could save a child from poverty and the terrors of the work house whilst at the same time being able to pick the most capable candidates for the Navy. Being the cynic that I am, I wonder if Nelson was being looked upon favourably because of who he was but in reality he was just doing what others in the RN had been doing for years and that was scouring the work houses for new recruits. The way I interpret things is that the RN training ships were really just an extension of the work house.

I think you're right - there were a lot of widows and orphans because of the wars. It sounds like that scene in Master and Commander where Stephen finds out Jack is keeping the midshipmen's pay but it was to keep them out of trouble - Nelson did the same thing. An 8 year old kid could buy liquor and get as debauched as anybody aboard the ship, but it was harder if he didn't have the money! He took on some dead-enders, kids everybody had given up on. He had a very good success rate with these hard case boys, too, and some of them did go on to make a career of the navy.
 
I think you're right - there were a lot of widows and orphans because of the wars. It sounds like that scene in Master and Commander where Stephen finds out Jack is keeping the midshipmen's pay but it was to keep them out of trouble - Nelson did the same thing. An 8 year old kid could buy liquor and get as debauched as anybody aboard the ship, but it was harder if he didn't have the money! He took on some dead-enders, kids everybody had given up on. He had a very good success rate with these hard case boys, too, and some of them did go on to make a career of the navy.
Those young lads from the work houses that ended up on the training ships probably did so as part of the Quota Acts, I know for a fact that the prisons were releasing men from their sentences early providing that they agreed to enlist, joining the navy was also a good way to get out of debt.
 
Those young lads from the work houses that ended up on the training ships probably did so as part of the Quota Acts, I know for a fact that the prisons were releasing men from their sentences early providing that they agreed to enlist, joining the navy was also a good way to get out of debt.

If you ever got paid! :D Isn't that what the mutinies at Spithead were about? That and edible food. Probably thought getting some cheese that didn't make indestructible buttons might be nice!
 
If you ever got paid! :D Isn't that what the mutinies at Spithead were about? That and edible food. Probably thought getting some cheese that didn't make indestructible buttons might be nice!
One of my favourite naval sayings is, 'He's so thin he could get under the lee of a rope yarn', while his coat fits him like a pursers shirt on a handspike.'
 
My favorite civil war era song is Lorena.

I just spent a while on YouTube listening to Aura Lee, Kathleen Mavoureen, Bonnie Blue Flag and a medley of Civil War era hymns. I like them all. But, I'd bet that the regimental bands on both sides were nowhere near as good as the ones on YouTube. It would be cool to hear some of these songs the way they heard them.
 
During the 1800s, we had a law which was known as the 'Poor Law amendment Act of 1834 but the Act began back in the mid 1700s', it basically made being poor and destitute illegal. People were no longer able to be homeless, they could be arrested for vagrancy and begging could bring a jail sentence. Under the poor law act the State took responsibility for the poor and the homeless but this new law wasn't motivated by charity or compassion. What it really was, was an attempt to remove the poor from the streets, lock them up in compounds and make them work for their food.

Wow. Honestly, I had no idea. Thanks for posting this.
 
if I keep posting I will soon be Major Major Bill. Anyone know who Major Major Major Major was? Perhaps I should changed my avatar to a image of Major Major Major Major from the movie Catch 22. Maybe I should do a totally different avatar.

major major m.png


Anyone recognize the actor who played Major Major Major Major?
 
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