Ramrods at reenactments

[Rhea Cole]

That's what I didn't understand - it is counter intuitive. I didn't realize the water chills a hard crust around the ember. That is crazy AND interesting! So that's why stopping the vent is SO important when swabbing out. Just like puffing a fire to get it going.

Exactly, wish I had made that analogy.

 

[Irishtom29]

Take up Medieval reenacting, no gunpowder or projectiles. Just beat the dickens out of each other.

 

[Doc_Ralph]

These drills were developed by guys whose lives actually depended on the thing functioning properly and not blowing up. There is absolutely no need to add a "modern twist" to the drills, as they are safe as long as the people are doing them are doing them as prescribed, and are doing them with the correct tools and equipment.

I went ahead and skimmed through the PDF that was posted, and those accounts were sobering indeed, not because firing a cannon is inherently dangerous, but because of the incredibly irresponsible things being done, and the elasticity of the word "cannon."

Cannon blows up on Boy Scout. May have used wadding, or possibly a potato.

"Cannon" (a pipe stopped up on one end, aka a pipe bomb) blows up 4th of July celebrants.

Cannon didn't fire, crew just shrugged and loaded another one, which blew up "unexpectedly."

I can agree with you on most. I do think they are can be dangerous and the proscribed modern steps are to keep folks alive. The crews i have been with then and now are well drilled and knowledgeable. Black powder is magic or voodoo. It holds a fascination for me.

 

[SethJ]

Personally, using a ramrod is my favorite part of an old rifle. But, indeed, I'd rather lose a bit of historic accuracy with slamming my butt plate on the ground and smacking the side of the gun... Than losing a limb or a life because somebody doesn't know drill.

 

[archieclement]

I don't have a dog in this fight, not being a reenactor myself, however as far as the participants are concerned it doesn't seem like a hobby fraught with danger generally, ramrods or no ramrods. My niece sky dives, a pal was killed when his motorcycle hit a truck, every once in a while a hunter is accidentally shot, horsey people occasionally get thrown, (I think an actor fellow ended up in a wheel chair from that). Is there a hobby outside of something like stamp collecting where no accidents ever occur?

John

Sometimes I think people/society goes a little overboard these days........as anyone who grew up in the 70/80s knows, things we did all the time and enjoyed as kids, are often illegal or seldom allowed these days..........

I joked with a neighbor last week we apparently live in a childless society, as I drive 280 miles 2x a week to cabin and back, and you never see kids out running unsupervised like we did, seldom see them supervised in yard.......seldom see kids outside at all anymore.

 

[Doc_Ralph]

View attachment 509625
For those members not familiar with #1's position on the cannon crew, they use the sponge rammer to clear the barrel & ram the charge. #1 is stepping forward & about to sponge or ram the charge.

View attachment 509630
#3 is blocking the vent with his thumb. This prevents air getting into the barrel as #1 withdraws the sponge. A partial vacuum is created. The sponge comes out with a resonant popgun sound.

View attachment 509631
Premature detonation occurs when live embers are left. If #3 does not stop the vent or is not there at all, withdrawing the sponge sucks in a surprising jet of air. The live embers can detonate the charge as it is being rammed.

It is counter intuitive, but as the entry in the cannon accident says, a wet sponge does not extinguish embers the way you might think. The water child a hard crust around the ember. The ramming breaks open the crust & boom!

#1 always points his thumb toward the sponge. Held the other way the hand locks onto shaft with catastrophic results.

Parks Canada placed just about everything flammable in a cannon to see how long it would burn. 7 minutes was the longest before the oxygen ran out. That is the data that supports the 150% ten minute wait between rounds mandated by the NPS & many state park systems.

Yes and in these modern days the #2 position is front left and worms out debris (in this case the remaining aluminum foil and other debris)
A good worming should always been done first to avoid pop cans and other debrtis that could have been placed down the tube.

#3 does not block the vent with his/her naked left thumb but a heavy leather thumb stall that is secured to the hand by a leather thong.

Personally going on my four years of artillery reenacting i have never had a misfire. I have practiced it time after time drill after drill. I encourage everyone who works cannons to get certified.

 

[7thWisconsin]

Take up Medieval reenacting, no gunpowder or projectiles. Just best the dickens out of each other.

One of the first medieval events I did, back in the early 80s, gave me a black eye, a dislocated shoulder and a bruised upper lip from eating the edge of my shield. And not a ramrod in sight!

 

[Virginia Dave]

One of the first medieval events I did, back in the early 80s, gave me a black eye, a dislocated shoulder and a bruised upper lip from eating the edge of my shield. And not a ramrod in sight!

Glad there weren't any archers.

 

[7thWisconsin]

Glad there weren't any archers.

Actually that might have been a blessing!

 

[Cavalier]

@archieclement I think you're onto something there. I was a kid in the 50s and we used to play three flies up in the street and just move over when cars came. There was the constant drone of kids playing in the street when school was out. You can even hear that in a couple of old movies that were filmed on city streets in those days. I guess we were lucky to have made it to our teens.

You might might get a chuckle out of this, I was an exceptionally clumsy kid, (when I was up the guys would put their hands in their pockets and yell "Easy out!"), and as a result had to get stitched up a few times. On one of my several visits to the emergency room the nurse took one look at me and said, "Are you back again?".

John

 

[BrianB]

Three thoughts:

(1) I have a VAGUE memory of a drummer boy in a New Jersey(?) reenactment unit being hit (or maybe his drum was hit) by a fired tampion. This would have been 20 + years ago -- I recall reading about it in Civil War News. Does anyone remember this incident?

(2) There was a TV show some years back - one of those "who done it" murder mystery shows (Monk? ) in which a murder was committed during a reenactment. There was a video of the reenactors made by a spectator, and the detective, reviewing the video, realizes that exactly one of the reenactors is using a ramrod - to ram a live round down the barrel- and this individual (of course) had a motive to want the victim dead. So, does anyone remember this episode? What tv show was it?

(3) The TV show Elementary had an episode where a reenactor disguised a modern rifle as a Brown Bess (now, that's a neat trick!) and used it to commit a murder during a reenactment. Anyone remember this episode?

 

[7thWisconsin]

I do remember the tompion accident. There was an episode of ¨Psych¨ that featured reenacting, which is the one you´re referencing, I think. (It´s actually a very good episode that satirizes reenacting at the time very well.) There was also an episode of ¨Matlock¨ that involved a reenactment death - tre weight fired from the barrel, if I remember correctly. I suppose if you took one of the old movie Springfield .45-.70s, and could get it on the field - they still make .45-.70 ammo so that would work. (I feel kinda queasy giving out all this grisly information.)

 

[peacefulanimalguy7]

a reenactor disguised a modern rifle as a Brown Bess (now, that's a neat trick!) and used it to commit a murder during a reenactment.

"Why does your firelock have a charging handle sir?"

 

[UCVRelics]

@UCVRelics

Have you heard of this?

Vol. 18, No. 3 Summer 1997 Pg. 2
As longtime readers know, we have several times published
National Safety Rules for artillery firing and we offer free
additional copies. Some of you have ordered copies to give out
or have sent names of people you think should become familiar
with safe shooting rules.
Our offer still stands. If you see unsafe practices, try to
correct them and we'd be happy to send the rules to the parties
involved.
What brings this to mind is a recent Associated Press story
headlined " Teen Injured in Cannon Blast Gets Robotic Arm."
According to the newspaper account Billy Gibbs, 17, was
ramming and sponging a 12 pdr. Napoleon during the March
reenactment of Cuba Station in Demopolis, AL.
Gibbs had rammed a pound of black powder down the barrel. "
I was in charge of getting the sparks out," he told the reporter.
"I rammed the charge down, felt a loud flash and the ramrod took
most of my hand off. I laid on the ground and [at first] I
couldn't feel my hand. The I could feel pain like you're not
supposed to feel."
According to the orthopedic hand surgeon, the hand lost a
thumb, the tops of the other fingers were badly damaged and the
two major nerves of the hand were "totally blasted apart." The
doctor said, "It was worst than anything I've seen, even in the
Gulf War." The hand was amputated and Gibbs has been fitted with an artificial hand.

I remember it and it was a LONG time ago. Doc Stanhope still has that cannon.

 

[The Ninth Ohio]

Yes and in these modern days the #2 position is front left and worms out debris (in this case the remaining aluminum foil and other debris)
A good worming should always been done first to avoid pop cans and other debrtis that could have been placed down the tube.

#3 does not block the vent with his/her naked left thumb but a heavy leather thumb stall that is secured to the hand by a leather thong.

Personally going on my four years of artillery reenacting i have never had a misfire. I have practiced it time after time drill after drill. I encourage everyone who works cannons to get certified.

Aluminum foil, soda cans, and other debris should not be anywhere near the barrel of a cannon, let alone inside. As I said, if one is using period correct tools and materials, they don't need to invent new steps to a process designed to use those materials in the safest and most efficient way possible.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Aluminum foil, soda cans, and other debris should not be anywhere near the barrel of a cannon, let alone inside.

I've seen foil used in cannons on several occasions at historical sites. By staff reenactors, not outsiders.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Yes and in these modern days the #2 position is front left and worms out debris (in this case the remaining aluminum foil and other debris)
A good worming should always been done first to avoid pop cans and other debrtis that could have been placed down the tube.

#3 does not block the vent with his/her naked left thumb but a heavy leather thumb stall that is secured to the hand by a leather thong.

Personally going on my four years of artillery reenacting i have never had a misfire. I have practiced it time after time drill after drill. I encourage everyone who works cannons to get certified.

The skirmish association drill does include worming. The Civil War period drill has every superfluous movement removed. The NPS drill only has a couple of small safety adjustments. Ranger Jim Lewis at Stones River was instrumental in bringing the present drill manual into being. It would be impossible to exaggerate how important Jim's dedication to historical accuracy & insistence on safety has been. He is the real deal.

 

[Rhea Cole]

I've seen foil used in cannons on several occasions at historical sites. By staff reenactors, not outsiders.

Aluminum foil is the recognized material for safely making cannon rounds.

Foil won't spark & does not pose a hazard down range. It also does not carry embers down range that can cause fires.

If you look at the water buckets of the battery you will see wads of aluminum foil. They are the base of the charge that is sometimes left in the breech.

As a crewman aboard the tall ship HMS Rose my wife & I participated in a ship on ship duel in the pool at Bristol Harbor.

The English gunners used cloth powder bags. Nothing terrified a wooden sailing ship crew like tatters of cloth riding the shock wave & fluttering down like butterflies all over the deck.

As you can see, we had a hardy crew of right man of war men who gave as good as we got.

That was personal lesson in why we use aluminum foil.

The Rose was converted into the HMS Surprise for the movie Master & Commander. She is at a museum in California now.

 

[7thWisconsin]

I remember seeing her at Yorktown over 40 years ago!

 

[Rhea Cole]

I remember seeing her at Yorktown over 40 years ago!

There really is something about a full rigged ship under sail ¿no? We sailed out of Boston to the Festival of the Sea in Bristol, England in 1996. Instead of going to Ireland a six day blow sent us to Horta in the Azores.