Ramrods at reenactments

SgtDarby8OVI

Corporal
Joined
Jun 30, 2021
There seems to be a disturbing trend emerging in the hobby, which involved folks drawing and ramming powder (and sometimes paper) during opposing fire combat scenarios. While using ramrods is acceptable in controlled firing demonstrations, it has always been strictly forbidden at reenactments due to the obvious safety issues. We first noticed this happening at a 160th Antietam event and again at 160th Wilderness. The primary perpetrators seem to be campaigners, but a recent report of it happening at a small local event this past weekend (that campaigners would not touch) suggests that the practice is spreading.

To me, this is unacceptable at any level and can only lead to disaster. Can anyone out there explain to me how this is seen by anyone with half a brain as a good idea? What is the proper response when you see it happening? How can commanders justify letting their troops put others in harm's way?

I look forward to hearing from you all. I can tolerate a lot of stuff from other reenactors, but this puts my life in danger and I don't like it at all.
 
I'm on the fence…

Texas Rev. reenactors I know have done it for years and years with no incident. I wanna say Rev. War and War of 1812 guys have as well. Like I said "wanna" on the latter. Don't know for sure, but Texas Rev. I know have and never heard of an accident.

I think it's fine and have no issue IF the ones doing it have drilled, and I mean drilled over and over on it. If they've done that, I've no problem trusting muscle memory.

Though some rifling may be wore out in the rifle-muskets…

But if we're talking dismounted cav. guys or other shall we say "less than dedicated" to safety and or historical accuracy coming out in sunglasses and purple hair outfits? Not no but h*ll no!!!!!!
 
To me it's an unnecessary risk for a hobby. But then again the hobby (if you're into the 'fight' part of it) breaks all rules of firearms safety. I recall a ramrod getting launched at 125th of Gettysburg, then at the 135th some poor guy getting plugged with a pistol bullet. I've seen multiple people get clobbered in 'hand-to-hand' scenarios. I stick to my original thought that rammers are not necessary for the show. I'd trust unknown reenactors about like I trust other guys at a shooting range. I like being friendly and meeting new folks, but when it comes to firearms, I trust myself
 
Guess that explains why they often look as if shooting at a strafing plane......otherwise powder wouldn't remain in place.

Assume revolvers at least use wax or some minimal wadding.
 
It has been proven again and again that when fired, a ramorod travels at most 20 feet. The only exception to this is when it is fired, with a wad, at extreme elevation. Videos posted below.


It's not going to put your life in danger, that's just silly hyperbole.

Artillery reenactors are expected to put the rammer down the piece. Why should it be any different with infantry? If you follow the proper loading procedure, one's hand does not even come off the rammer.

I mean, if your arguing that events should move away from silly depictions of combat, then I guess I agree with you.
 
There seems to be a disturbing trend emerging in the hobby, which involved folks drawing and ramming powder (and sometimes paper) during opposing fire combat scenarios. While using ramrods is acceptable in controlled firing demonstrations, it has always been strictly forbidden at reenactments due to the obvious safety issues. We first noticed this happening at a 160th Antietam event and again at 160th Wilderness. The primary perpetrators seem to be campaigners, but a recent report of it happening at a small local event this past weekend (that campaigners would not touch) suggests that the practice is spreading.

To me, this is unacceptable at any level and can only lead to disaster. Can anyone out there explain to me how this is seen by anyone with half a brain as a good idea? What is the proper response when you see it happening? How can commanders justify letting their troops put others in harm's way?

I look forward to hearing from you all. I can tolerate a lot of stuff from other reenactors, but this puts my life in danger and I don't like it at all.
Perfectly normal at a number of events in Europe...(especially with Napoleonic's and 1866) just like fixed bayonets are.

If realistic combat ranges where used (about 100 yards), the paper rammed and people aimed low the ramrod would never reach the opposing line.

It also done in some smaller everts where skirmishing is the norm.
People are firing in the own time, so no hurry and its easy to aim low and/or away from any enemies.
---

That said, the two groups I do events with only use the ramrods when there are no one downrange. Or in a calm situation.
So we usually use it for the first round. And everyone look to make sure they returned their own rammer, and its whole. And that the people around them did the same. And with our small numbers the commander can visually inspect all guns.
It makes a huge difference in our experience. If the first round is rammed, then the guns will usually keep working with unrammed blank rounds... If we don't ram the first round, there are a lot of misfires.

And if the is a break in the firing and we again can ram the paper in a calm manner, we often do so.

Similar if there is a issue with a gun that misfired. We usually have the private exchange guns with a nco behind the lines who then clear the powder in the barrel, and ram a new charge discharge the gun next time it is relevant to do so.
and if it worked exchange it with the private again.

Again done by someone under no time pressure, with plenty of experience and aimed somewhere safe.

And obviously at demonstrations with no one downrange.
I also always make sure it is used as much as possible during drill.. even if it is hard on the rifling.

I rather have well drilled people, where we remind each other when not to use it... than having badly drilled people who are unsure about how to drawn and use the rammer.
 
I suspect that there is a significant difference between a ramrod shot from a musket loaded with a Minnie ball & a blank. The blow by would greatly reduce the velocity of a ramrod.

I have taught a safety lesson for new living history cannon crew volunteers. The earliest example of the premature detonation casualty I have is from the 1500's.

Rapid firing a salute, a premature detonation inflicted a traumatic amputation of #1's right arm at the elbow. He was flung through the embrasure & fell 40' into the ocean. A long litany of similar casualties have resulted from rapid firing blanks.

Here are some examples of musket ram rod casualty events:



 
Artillery reenactors are expected to put the rammer down the piece. Why should it be any different with infantry?
Probably because it's easier for someone else to point out a rammer left in a cannon than with muskets, since at least 3 people are operating a cannon compared to one person per musket
 
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One might learn from instruction, or from observation, or instead wait for actual experience to be their guide. The latter is not always pleasant.

From 1786, at New York City...

1717204234167.png


From 1811, John Warner of Rhode Island was killed in a sham battle in Massachusetts...

1717204104630.png


1860s veterans left many accounts of firing off ramrods by accident in battle, and men being struck by them.

1717198275487.png


1717198332637.png


1717198468043.png


Sure, the above was in combat. In Sham battles in camp the Soldiers learned how dangerous the flying ramrods could be too. Joseph R. Schwartz of the G.A.R. recalled of training in 1861-62 at Camp Chase:

1717200518025.png


John Pardington, of the Iron Brigade, regarding sham battles in camp near Washington in September, 1862:

1717204467710.png


And from Richmond, VA, in October, 1864:

1717201998195.png



In the Centennial of the Revolution, in 1876 at Trenton, New Jersey... left lasting memories of ramrods...

1717200272225.png

1717200317606.png


From 1877, Watertown, NY, there seems to have been some learning processes afoot, as the papers noted for an upcoming sham battle, the men would be using breechloaders, so no more trouble about flying ramrods...

1717200067871.png


From 1879:

1717201395148.png


Trenton again, 1883...

1717201460293.png


Also 1883:

1717201874145.png



Illinois, 1885:

1717201776800.png


Detroit, 1887:

1717201734749.png


Granted such incidents and injuries were rare considering the scale of sham battle events across the country, but they were ALWAYS unnecessary.

in 1960, with a long and cherished history of Sham Battles behind, the Civil War Centennial Committee, taking the above into account, publicly warned about the possible dangers of battle reenactment ramrod use... and the warning was generally abided to avoid the unnecessary dangers...

1717191737702.png



From 1994:

1717198138195.png




Rev. War by 1976:

1717192485455.png




But there's always those who want to reinvent the wheel.

Some may have since observed a flying ramrod or two at reenactments in spite of the warnings, but thankfully without injury... from a web search:

1717197062170.png



from 1978, From the Las Vegas Review:

1717191870315.png


Anyways, from 1998...

1717197736788.png


When such experiences occur and cause bodily injury or death, it will be one not soon forgotten.



Cannon rammers occasionally fly despite the care of cannon crews; usually from accidental discharges/cook-offs in loading.

From Fort Wayne, 1886:
1717201628638.png


From 1970:
1717192192112.png


and 1976:

1717191459061.png

1717191495410.png

1717191563458.png


The above led to a million dollar lawsuit.


Not a ramrod, but another reenactment musket ball accident...
Museum Musket accident...

All of the above incidents were "accidental" meaning the people involved (hopefully) had no intention for it to occur. That ranges from actual US soldiers of the 1860s, veterans post war, national guards, and reenactors, etc. The Civil War Centennial Committee recommended to watch out for such accidents, which historically pose a danger: and laying off the use of ramrods in battle reenactments has proven a good preventative probably.


When I was a young reenactor decades ago, when one fell in, their musket was instantly inspected to see that it was unloaded and clean; and their ammo checked to see that it included only blanks. And if for some reason we drew our ramrods during a battle reenactment we ignored the general instruction (for which, we were told, there was no excuse), our NCOs would have wrestled the gun from our hands. If one were inclined to argue about it, signaling they were incapable of learning by instruction, they were escorted from the field.
We were told there was two sides to the spectator-line. One side for reenactors, who followed tried and true reenactor rules, and the other side for everybody else. That said, Event and group rules differ in enforcement.

Other groups or events in recent years prefer the use of the ramrod, but I am under the impression these are smaller events, with few or no spectators, and the participants and site hosts aware of the risks.
 
Couple things.

One, I would be much more concerned about the distances (or lack thereof) routinely observed at mainstream events than drill practiced by campaigners.

Two, can someone please explain why no one ever complains that artillery uses "rammers"? I mean they're human, they could forget theirs in the barrel just as easily as an infantryman.
 
There seems to be a disturbing trend emerging in the hobby, which involved folks drawing and ramming powder (and sometimes paper) during opposing fire combat scenarios. While using ramrods is acceptable in controlled firing demonstrations, it has always been strictly forbidden at reenactments due to the obvious safety issues. We first noticed this happening at a 160th Antietam event and again at 160th Wilderness. The primary perpetrators seem to be campaigners, but a recent report of it happening at a small local event this past weekend (that campaigners would not touch) suggests that the practice is spreading.

To me, this is unacceptable at any level and can only lead to disaster. Can anyone out there explain to me how this is seen by anyone with half a brain as a good idea? What is the proper response when you see it happening? How can commanders justify letting their troops put others in harm's way?

I look forward to hearing from you all. I can tolerate a lot of stuff from other reenactors, but this puts my life in danger and I don't like it at all.
I was at the 160th wilderness event it we were
Told no ramrods: there
Is several video is of that event too showing guys not using ramrods
 
Ramrods have been used at campaigner events for a long time, nothing new, don't recall anyone ever getting hurt. As already said even if you fired it it wouldn't go very far. Still a big no no at mainstream events which people get scolded for doing so. Doesn't bother me any one way or the other, I play by the rules of the event.
 
Guess that explains why they often look as if shooting at a strafing plane......otherwise powder wouldn't remain in place.

Assume revolvers at least use wax or some minimal wadding.
You don't have to aim at the birds to hold the powder in, just don't tilt down. Mainstream officers are always screaming at everyone to elevate, some take it to extreme which looks ridiculous
 
@The Ninth Ohio this is a prediction I made
Then what is the role of file closers in the ranks? If a company has the proper ratio of NCOs to men, and the file closers are well-drilled, and are doing their job rather than popping over trying to burn their own powder, there is plenty of oversight. And this is not to mention the rank and file being well-drilled.

So again I ask, why do artillery and infantry play by different rules when both have been proven to be more or less completely safe when the correct historical drill is being used.

It sure seems counterproductive to claim to be educating the public, teach them the three rounds a minute factoid, and then they see folks out on the battlefield blazing away at each other from 25 yards with muskets elevated to 70 degrees or more. It doesn't lend a whole lot of historical authority to the hobby. In my experience people are a bit more discerning and expect better.
 
I´ve reenacted for about 50 years now, and the ¨no ramrods¨ policy has been solidly in place that entire time. I abide by it. I have attended campaign-oriented events where numbers were small and distances large where we used ramrods. It was a better experience. The gun fires more reliably with compressed powder. Also, the rate of fire is slowed down to something more realistic. I honestly think the danger threatened by ramrods is hyperbole. If you teach a firer how to load the musket, he´ll do it correctly. There are not so many of us that we can´t watch each other. Even if it´s fired, a ramrod wobbles about 20-30 yards and you shouldn´t be shooting at that range anyway. I´d like to see the rule fade away like other reenactorisms. Do I think it will? No. It´s firmly entrenched in reenacting culture. I have a hard time believing the waiver we sign would protect someone in our litigious society. With the hobby clearly drawing down, though, this might be an excellent opportunity to revisit some of our dearly-cherished concepts and bring them into a modern understanding of safety and historicity.
 

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