Paper Cartridge Information

[Wawyasto]

What was the standard paper cartridge load for the Springfield and Enefield rifles? What diameter/weight minie, charge of powder, etc.? I've been trying to find details in some old Ordnance books online with no luck.

 

[captaindrew]

60 grains of powder, .577 ball for Enfield .58 for Springfield

 

[Soundstorm]

Look up "The Ordnance Manual for the use of the officers of the United States Army." More specifically page 270. It lists all the dimensions, powder charges etc.. I believe it's a free download.

 

[muffinman67]

the modern guru of paper cartridges is a young man named Brett Gibbons, who maintains a small business in Gettysburg Pa. He has researched paper cartridges for years and has ton of info. on CW ammo. Check out his website. He is, unfortunately, active military and will soon be deployed until next year, but there is a ton of videos and written info. thru his site.

 

[Pollaco]

I've made paper cartridges for a handgun but none for rifles.I understand the paper doesn't need to be "nitrated" for long guns.They can be but don't really need it, but it's not a necessary step in other words, Is that true?

 

[yulzari]

I've made paper cartridges for a handgun but none for rifles.I understand the paper doesn't need to be "nitrated" for long guns.They can be but don't really need it, but it's not a necessary step in other words, Is that true?

There is no need for rifle cartridges to be nitrated. The paper is dragged out by the bullet and discarded. Some went to extra trouble to ensure the paper did not burn and disintegrate in the barrel (eg Chassepot). Musket cartridges also had no need to be nitrated as the paper was put into the bore after the powder was poured into the barrel so sat upon it and was blown out. It was needed as both a wad to seal the bore and as a sabot to hold the ball. It is only when the paper remains may stay in the chamber that paper and gut cartridges need either nitrating or chemically converting to gun cellulose, commonly called gun cotton.

There were several ways to deal with paper cartridges. One was to attach the bullet to the powder case and have it dragged out. This leaves the base behind so that was dealt with by, for exampLe, storing the powder pressure behind the bolt and releasing it after the pressure in the barrel dropped once the bullet/powder case has been expelled. Another is to have a greased felt wad at the rear of the cartridge which remains, but is then pushed up the barrel by the next round being chambered. The greased wad being pushed out of the barrel by the bullet of the next round being fired, also cleaning and greasing the bore as it goes.

The common nitrated paper cartridges were the revolver ones where the gap between the chamber and bore makes other methods tricky. People often use old or reproduction rifles and complain of fouling in the chamber and often this can be traced to them failing to understand how the original worked and trying to use nitrated paper which must leave the remains as it is still paper. It is only the 'gun cotton' or ' flash paper' that can be entirely consumed and they have fragility and safety issues. Otherwise one is not trying to consume the paper but, on the contrary, to preserve its integrity as it travels up the bore attached to the bullet.

My personal experience is with the Westley Richards Monkey Tail and the Chassepot rifles. The Westley Richards seals the bore with the greased wad of the last round so the new round is safe from the remains of the rear of the preceding one. The Chassepot cartridge goes to much trouble with silk gauze wrapped around the powder case to keep it from burning up and be expelled whole and a rubber disk to contain chamber pressure behind the bolt to blow out the cartridge base once the bullet has left the barrel and the pressure drops. Both tie the powder case to the bullet. I understand, but have not used one, that the Sharps rifle went from paper case to a linen case to do the same thing. Many try to simplify the Chassepot cartridge, which is complicated, but I found that the closer I got to the original design the better it worked.

Apologies for over answering the question.

 

[Pollaco]

I frequently put a bit of information into a form of a question. Sometimes I kind of already know the answer (or think I do) but I feel one of the purposes of a forum is to educate. I am by no means a "know-it-all" and have learned many, many things off of this forum.Plus I don't mind pretending to be ignorant on some subjects just to possibly get an answer and keep the thread rolling along.It sometimes disappoints when a question goes unanswered though.

 

[Wawyasto]

Look up "The Ordnance Manual for the use of the officers of the United States Army." More specifically page 270. It lists all the dimensions, powder charges etc.. I believe it's a free download.

View attachment 483347

View attachment 483348

DO you have a link for this? I found one place that had this manual but much of the pages were unreadable.

 

[Lampasas Bill]

The first out-of-state event I attended was at Mansfield, LA in 1980 or '81. Our Missouri unit was sent behind some woods, out of sight, to begin the battle by providing "distant musket fire." We blazed away as directed, but some were putting the paper down the barrel instead of just the powder. Next thing we knew the dry pine needles in front began smoldering. The "distant musket fire" suddenly ceased while we frantically danced on the flames. At least the public didn't see our "war dance."

 

[thomas aagaard]

Musket cartridges also had no need to be nitrated as the paper was put into the bore after the powder was poured into the barrel so sat upon it and was blown out.

With smoothbores you are right.
But American "minie" cartridges for riflemuskets was loaded without any paper in the barrel.

 

[Soundstorm]

THISDO you have a link for this? I found one place that had this manual but much of the pages were unre

Try this link