Muzzleldrs P53 Enfield?

[ConnyPersson]

Got this rifle and done some research myself. It seems the barrel has been cut down aswell as the stock obviously. But what i'm curious about is what this rifle used to be in it's original state?

Some questionmarks are the rod attachment that doesn't seem to be on the original, but i guess it could've been attached at a later date.

Also the "346" mark on both the barrel and the stock is rather confusing.

There seems to be a "Moore & Harris" on the buttstock aswell, from what i could find it was a Birmingham firm.


Would apritaite any help i could get, linking some photos underneath, thanks!

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[tbuckley]

Welcome from eastern Ohio. It appears to be a P53 modified for use as a shotgun postwar.

 

[ConnyPersson]

Welcome from eastern Ohio. It appears to be a P53 modified for use as a shotgun postwar.

Cool thank you very much

 

[UCVRelics]

Welcome From THE Heart Of Dixie. Lets see what our Enfield gurus say, paging @Lanyard Puller and @Craig L Barry

 

[ConnyPersson]

Welcome From THE Heart Of Dixie. Lets see what our Enfield gurus say, paging @Lanyard Puller and @Craig L Barry

Thanks

 

[3rd North Carolina]

that is a p53 for sure its either cut down for hunting or it possible been used for as a stagecoach protection

 

[GwilymT]

Welcome from Pittsburgh PA! If you're up for some good debate, stop on over at the secession forums. I'm sure one of the local experts will be around soon to help out with your question.

 

[ConnyPersson]

Thank you guys apritiate the help. Allright then safe to say it was a p53 originally, i'll make sure to let people know when they ask

 

[Larryh86GT]

Welcome from WNY

 

[Kurt G]

Welcome from Michigan

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy

 

[ConnyPersson]

Thanks guys :- )

 

[OldSarge79]

You are correct about the ramrod receiver. Not original.
The 346 will probably be a unit inventory number. What unit? We will probably never know unless you ever find another Enfield with similar numbers. If both the barrel and stock were marked with the number, they may have also been done to verify that the two of them are matched by an assembler or inspector.
Are there any other markings, perhaps in front of the butt plate tang or behind the trigger guard tang?
If you remove the ramrod, are there any markings in the wood, covered by the ramrod?

I'm curious about the sling. Can't see how it's attached. Is it tied onto the swivels or does the attachment look more professional?

 

[Lanyard Puller]

So far so good on the Pattern 1853 Rifle Musket, and the 346 numbers on the stock and barrel are most likely unit or assembly numbers. These guns were not made with interchangeable parts.

As @OldSarge79 suggested, please have a close look on the belly of the stock, at the end of the brass trigger plate for some other small stamp{s} in the wood. The Moore & Harris is well stamped so there is a good possibility you'll find something.

 

[Craig L Barry]

Interesting piece. It looks like the TOWER and date are engraved further forward on the lockplate. They are usually a tad closer to the hammer. Moore & Harris was a fairly well known Birmingham commercial gunmaker. William Moore began his own business in 1808 and did work making gunstocks for the well known firm of Joseph Manton until about 1820. William Moore had premises in London and in 1829 opened a stock making operation in the gun quarter of Birmingham at 4 Whittall Street. In 1836 he was made "Gunmaker-in-Ordinary" to King William IV of England. This meant that his work was in a higher category than his peers and was as such he was chosen as a gun maker for the king. He began a partnership with William Harris in 1838 and began exporting their firearms to the United States around this time. William Harris was recorded in the 1851 census as a master gun maker employing 5 men. He was living at 38 Great Hampton Street, Birmingham with his wife Emma and his mother-in-law and a servant. On October 1,1852 William Moore and William Harris patented a hinged percussion revolver which was produced in limited quantities. By 1859 Moore & Harris had expanded into barrel and lock making and in 1861 they moved into a large factory known as the Great Western Gun Works at 91 Constitution Hill in Birmingham.

The 1861 census record shows William Harris and his wife living at 36 Loveday Street in Birmingham by this time. William Harris is also described in the records as a gun maker. In 1862 the partnership of William Moore and William Harris had a display with both military and civilian sporting guns at the International Exhibition in London. After that in 1864 there was a downturn in business. Perhaps due to some of the US Civil War contracts ending which could have led to temporary financial problems or it is possible long time partner William Moore died---no date of death is firmly established---at any rate in 1864 the premises at at 91 Constitution Hill (Great Western Gun Works) was sold at auction. Westley Richards joined Moore & Harris in a partnership established to save the firm from closure. The venture failed but because Moore & Harris had a fairly substantial sporting gun export business, the operation was bought at auction by W & C Scott & Son.

The firm of Moore & Harris appears to have moved back to London and there re-opened retail operations, at least they are known to have been trading in 1867 from a showroom at 2 Long Acre, London. When that operation closed is not known, but it may have lasted up to 1877. William Harris was recorded in the 1871 census living with wife Emma at 126 Buckingham Palace Road, London, clearly having permanently left the gun quarter of Birmingham. He described himself as the manager of a gun factory. They are not recorded afterwards.

 

[captaindrew]

Welcome to the forum from South Florida and the Reenactors Forum

 

[ConnyPersson]

Thanks Lanyard and Sarge for the number very interesting indeed, and hats off to Craig wow. This forum is excellent it's like the anitque road show program, great thing with internet is that history is stored forever aswell.

I'm going to look at the gun tomorrow if i can screw it apart abit and give info about the things you were curious about.

Thanks all for helping to share it's really exciting

 

[Booner]

You are correct about the ramrod receiver. Not original...……..
I'm curious about the sling. Can't see how it's attached. Is it tied onto the swivels or does the attachment look more professional?

Who ever modified this gun stock made use of the original ramrod channel but added a brass octagon entry thimble were the wooden ramrod entered the stock through the old ramrod hole. It looks like the thimble is pinned to the stock at that point. The upper thimble looks to be round, or maybe it was also octagon shaped but was damaged at one time, but it appears to be brazed to the barrel, but somewhat of a amateurish job, so maybe that's a later repair?

The sling hanger appears to have a long thin bolt that goes through holes at the end of the hanger and then through the stock and most likely through a lug that also has been brazed to the bottom of the barrel, and inletted into the barrel channel of the stock. This bolt or pin will have to be removed if one wanted to take the barrel out of the stock. If it doesn't have a lug on the bottom of the barrel, it's likely the stock would have given way and splintered at this point.

I hoping the ramrod is original. It looks to have a swelled end, (this is the end that goes down the barrel), which would be typical of a shotgun-type ramrod. Also, it isn't straight, which is a good thing. Straight ramrods rattle in their thimbles, and easily fall out. Curved ramrods hold tight in their hangers.