Grant Not impressed with Grants performance

Shermans approach at Atlanta was very similar to Grants during the Overland Campaign.

Stall, flank, stall, flank

Eventually, the superior numbers prevailed.

You are right. The general in charge makes all the difference though. Having superior numbers at Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville did not help the Union army at all. Burnside had 122,000 compared to 78,000 with Lee. Hooker had 133,000 to Lee's 60,000. If an army doesn't have good commander it wouldn't matter how many troops an army has.

Sherman and Grant were the best the Union army had and that is why they won.
 
Getting back to Grant, I have always been a little bit baffled by people who seem utterly unwilling to concede that he may have been a good general. I'm certainly sympathetic to people who think Lee or Jackson or Sherman were better, but does it really say all that many good things about Lee and the Confederate force in the West that they ended up losing to a drunk butcher? (This isn't directed towards the OP or anyone in particular, just a trend I've noticed on places less informed than this forum.)
I'm not saying Grant wasn't a good general. He was, but I do feel like he gets way more credit than deserved.

I don't think he petformed above what any competent general would have done.
 
You are right. The general in charge makes all the difference though. Having superior numbers at Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville did not help the Union army at all. Burnside had 122,000 compared to 78,000 with Lee. Hooker had 133,000 to Lee's 60,000. If an army doesn't have good commander it would matter how many troops a army has.
True, they acted foolishly though. Just like Grant did at Cold Harbor.
 
True, they acted foolishly though. Just like Grant did at Cold Harbor.
True, every commander makes mistakes. Grant admitted that he shouldn't have called the attack. In his memoirs it says, "I have always regretted that the last assault at Cold Harbor was ever made. ... No advantage whatever was gained to compensate for the heavy loss we sustained."

Even Lee wasn't immune to making mistakes of that magnitude. Picket's charge, a 15,000 man assault, resulted in 50% casualties.

Both attacks were deemed futile but were still ordered.
 
True, every commander makes mistakes. Grant admitted that he shouldn't have called the attack. In his memoirs it says, "I have always regretted that the last assault at Cold Harbor was ever made. ... No advantage whatever was gained to compensate for the heavy loss we sustained."

Even Lee wasn't immune to making mistakes of that magnitude. Picket's charge, a 15,000 man assault resulted in 50% casualties.

Both attacks were deemed futile but were still ordered.

No one was infoulable, but in Lee's case, I really believe at that point he was desperate. He knew this was probably his last chance to get to Washington and he was growing weary of it all.

Plus, I really think his ego got the best of him. He thought at that point his boys couldn't be stopped. He was wrong.

However, again Lee was outnumbered in every way and that battle wasn't lost until the 3rd day.

I'm sure Grant was ready to end it all too, especially with Lincoln on his heels, that's why he was willing to sacrifice so many men.

But besides logistical brilliance and persistence, Grant was just a good general.
 
Grant and Sherman had to wage war and not be deflected from the horror of it.
The way to end the horror was to win.
If the war had just sputtered in exhaustion, there would have been a rematch, with much more authoritarian governments and even greater destruction.
 
Nearly every union army commander had overwhelming superiority in men and materiel over his confederate counterpart but Grant was the one that accepted the surrender of three rebel armies
 
Nearly every union army commander had overwhelming superiority in men and materiel over his confederate counterpart but Grant was the one that accepted the surrender of three rebel armies
Only one to accept the surrender of any large confederate army in fact. Sherman accepted the surrender of Johnston but that was after the war ended I think.
 
That says more about those other commanders than it does for Grant.

And he accepted those after there wasn't much left to surrender.
That could be said of the Appomattox surrender. Lee's army was so worn down that only 23,000 were left. This amount was do to all the casualties Grant inflicted on his army and the mass desertions of the confederates. It was more symbolic than anything since Lee represented the army of the confederacy.

Apart from that, the surrenders at Donelson and Vicksburg were of the entire army at that place which were entirely intact. Those were very impressive.
 
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That could be said of the Appomattox surrender. Lee's army was so worn down that only 23,000 were left. This amount was do to all the casualties Grant inflicted on his army and the mass desertions of the confederates. It was more symbolic than anything since Lee represented the army of the confederacy.

Apart from that, the surrenders at Donelson and Vicksburg were of the entire army at that place which were entirely intact. Those were very impressive.
Imo, Vicksburg was his most impressive campaign.
 
Imo, Vicksburg was his most impressive campaign.

I think the Five Forks through Appomattox was a very impressive campaign as well . Grant finally had the Potomac and James armies tuned up, what with four new corps commanders in the Potomac army, Ord running the James army with Gibbon his heavy hitter and an aggressive and well led cavalry. Anyway the eastern Federals struck hard and moved fast, at last. Makes me wonder what Grant could've done in the east in Spring of 1864 with a quicker army. Say the 13th, 15th, and 17th Corps.
 
Imo, Vicksburg was his most impressive campaign.
Frankly, it was the most impressive of the war.

A Soviet General who knew what he was talking about said that wars are won by the least incompetent army. He was quite right, whether speaking about the Legions of Rome, the Tumans of Genghis Khan or the Armies of Napoleon. An army moves on its stomach, Grant understood this but Lee & the CS military in general did not. The US did a far better job of supplying its forces in the field and keeping them supplied than the CS. Logistics make the difference between a winning army and one that is not. Whether that failure began at the highest levels of the CS or was just a general lack of understanding is up to interpretation. What is not up to interpretation is that Grant understood the importance of logistics, certainly more so than any adversary he faced on the CS side.

Amateurs study battles & tactics while the professionals study logistics & geography.

Grant understood that the moment you force an opponent to suffer a siege he is done for. Every time he initiated a siege a CS Army would surrender to him.

Most Europeans were rather critical of the ACW as they viewed it as a war between bumbling amateurs commanding howling mobs. Those who actually saw the various armies first hand, however, had a rather different view. To paraphrase an acquaintance from college (another professional soldier who knew what he was talking about) at the beginning of the American Civil War both sides were fielding good fighters; America has always fielded good fighters. But by the end of the War both sides were fielding good soldiers.

Grant forged and shaped the US Army of the West starting with what would become the Army of the Tennessee and his influence would continue to have an impact all the way through the end of the war. The result of his leadership would be the utter & complete destruction of the CS. By the spring of 1865 the CS could field no army capable of defeating a US army facing it.

Was Grant brilliant? No, he never would have claimed he was. He put the responsibility for the victories of the US where they belonged: squarely on the shoulders of those on the sharp end of the spear.

Those who claim 'they had more' therefore they won fail to understand military history. More is not always better, in fact the best armies in history consistantly won against numerically superior foes. Though if they wish to say the CS soldier wasn't half the soldier of the Roman Legions, Mongol Tumans, or French Divisions... well history seems to bear that out.

There are those on this site who would say the US soldier was a craven coward who raped, pillaged and looted his way across the Confederacy and that 360,000 dead US soldiers was a good thing as it was that much less of a plague upon the continent. I see that kind of thing and know full well they have a very poor understanding of history or military matters at all and any claim they have to honor or integrity is self styled... at best.
 

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