Grant Not impressed with Grants performance

[wausaubob]

Oh the sublime sense of humor: Halleck had taken away Grant's command after Shiloh and left Grant as a titular 2nd in command. When Grant objected, Halleck said there was nothing wrong, he had Halleck's confidence.
Then when Grant had the power, he did the same thing to Halleck.
Forget about Bobrick and Varney, they don't matter.

 

[contestedground]

This really sells Grant short on his abilities to manage the Washington power structure in order to maximize his ability as commanding general:

General-in-Chief Henry W. Halleck, now outranked by his former subordinate, had forced Grant's hand by requesting to be relieved. Higher rank required Grant to assume overall command.Grant resolved the problem by arranging Halleck's appointment as chief of staff, leaving him in Washington to coordinate orders, freeing Grant to establish headquarters wherever he wished. Halleck's new post separated strategic command from administration, a crucial innovation in modern warfare. Grant avoided the role of military advisor to Lincoln and Secretary of War Edwin M. Stanton, a role congenial to Halleck, but intolerable to Grant, who intended to remain a commander, rather than a courtier, and to distance himself from politicians. Lincoln's Generals, Grant, Lincoln, and Unconditional Surrender, John Y. Simon, [pg 165-6]​

That's just stupid. Grant knew what his third star meant, and he would not have taken it without being allowed to establish his headquarters wherever he wanted.

Your hero's better on this:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?305846-3/lincoln-congress-grant-lieutenant-general-act

 

[wausaubob]

According to Young, Grant used to joke with Sherman that the March to the Sea was a picnic among watermelon patches and hog farms. He joked with Sheridan that the entire ride to battle story was mere poetry.

 

[Bee]

That's just stupid. Grant knew what his third star meant, and he would not have taken it without being allowed to establish his headquarters wherever he wanted.

Your hero's better on this:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?305846-3/lincoln-congress-grant-lieutenant-general-act

OUCH! It turns out that as that particular article went on, it became more disagreeable to me. For instance, the whole condescending nature of (paraphrased) 'Lincoln letting Grant think that he got his way, but not really' SOOOO, it does not surprise me that the passage that I quoted was erroneous, too. Sorry guys. Let ya down on this one...

Okay, then. I shall hop over and see what Dr. Simpson has to say on the matter

 

[WJC]

Not the slightest bit curious: There is enough history to read and discover -- no time for fiction.

AMEN!

 

[Bee]

I just watched the Prof. Simpson video, and @contestedground is correct: the article that I quoted was not only grossly oversimplified in its overview of Grant and the Lt Generalship, but also flat out wrong. The duties of the Lt. General and that of General-in-Chief/Chief of Staff were separate entities from the onset -- not some desperate slight-of-hand maneuver for Grant to "secure" the field position that he preferred. It was understood from the onset that Grant would command his armies where he saw fit. Another point: It was not the Happily-Ever-After relationship with Halleck after he and Grant settled into their duties. By August of 1864, the relationship was strained due to Halleck's constant meddling. Finally, of interest: The emcee mentioned that Prof Simpson is working on a biography about the friendship of Sherman and Grant. Was he pulling my leg? I am dam gullible at times...Se non è vero, è molto ben trovato -> If it is not true it is very well invented

EDIT: Anyone else reading this post: See what happens when you approach learning without the constraints of pre-conceived notions? You can be corrected and learn something in the process.​

 

[contestedground]

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[Bee]

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Not to worry: Post in progress! I experienced technical difficulties again, which wiped out my whole post. Re-constructing it as I type

 

[Schwallanscher]

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[Bee]

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OKAY, OKAY! @contestedground @Schwallanscher I re-constructed my disappearing post! I pressed the wrong button during fine-tuning edits, and I wiped out the whole dam thing. See the resurrected post https://civilwartalk.com/threads/not-impressed-with-grants-performance.130928/page-39#post-1600012

 

[WJC]

View attachment 149354

See what happens when you approach learning without the constraints of pre-conceived notions? You can be corrected and learn something in the process.​

You set a good example for us.
That's what learning is about: adapting to new information. And we learn best when we are challenged....

 

[wausaubob]

If you want to you can allow Grant to be evaluated by the 21st century imitators of Grant's 19th century critics. Most of the critics were New England aristocrats like Dana and Sumner who were mad that this uneducated hick from Illinois had usurped their privileges, or ex-Confederates who got their behinds handed to them by Sherman and Sheridan, and Grant.
Or you can follow what Grant's closest associates said about him, starting with his wife.
Among his friends were Abraham Lincoln, William T. Sherman, and Sam Clemens, all westerners.
Is there any other American that met with Red Cloud and was invited to Windsor Castle?

 

[wausaubob]

Grant accepted the Presidency. He knew it was going to hurt him financially and he knew it was going to hurt him politically because he was going to have to deal with problems created by the Civil War.
Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, and Abraham Lincoln did not have to deal with these problems.
Thaddeus Stevens died. Sherman bailed out on politics and retained his rank. Meade and Thomas also died with 5 years of the end of the war. George McClellan made bad political decisions had ruined his opportunity to be President.
As difficult as the Civil War was, President Lincoln had enormous war time powers to control events.
Grant had to put the country back together, and he did not have war time powers to do it with.

 

[War Horse]

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Lol, point taken.