Need Help Identifying Insignia

[major bill]

Note that he appears to wear dark blue trousers. Are there had cords as well?

 

[BillO]

Pre war Militia drum major. My guess.

 

[WJC]

OK, Sherlocks.I'm impressed! But can anyone tell what he had for dinner?

 

[Legion Para]

Your right on one count. His rank Division Quarter Master SGT Major.

With all due respect to @ucvrelics.com, I wouldn't be so quick to identify his rank as Division Quarter Master SGT Major.

During the War Union NCO's did some unusual things when it came to rank insignia. A friend of mine has posted this image on another forum to gain input from some very knowledgeable people.

Late war photographs show 1st Sgt.'s wearing only their Diamond.

 

[Legion Para]

Welcome to the forum veracruz.

 

[Mint Julep]

Note that he appears to wear dark blue trousers. Are there had cords as well?

Typical Hardee hat, or Model 1858 Dress Hat.

Officer trousers most likely or left over from his Militia enlistment.

 

[major bill]

Typical Hardee hat, or Model 1858 Dress Hat.

Officer trousers most likely or left over from his Militia enlistment.

I would tend to agree. But it is possible the dark trousers were of early war federal issue as the federal government was buying almost anything they could purchase. Still I think we can agree on this being an early war image

 

[Package4]

Hello, I need help identifying the insignia this Soldier is wearing on his Frock Coat.
Thanks!View attachment 138988

I just noticed that the vertical stripes are lighter in color than the rest of the chevron, I believe, based on the lack of a service stripe, that he is just a plain regimental or battalion sergeant major. He must have had some militia experience, thus the high noncom status and he decided to try and get away with his own version of adornment. No doubt he was later asked to tone it down or simply wore his fatigue blouse with regulation chevrons. During the Civil War, the rank of sergeant major was the highest noncom rank, with quartermaster sergeant being the next highest.

Keep in mind that command sergeant major CSM was not introduced until more than 100 years later

 

[Klaudly]

 

[DixieRifles]

This is a very unique rank insignia and the breakdown is the 3 lower chevron SGT, the 3 horizontal quartermaster. the vertical lines inside, Divisional, and the upper arch stripe is a SGT Major stripe.

Wow! That does sound unusual. I thought since he was a musician --- who tended to add elaborate details to their uniforms, at least in European armies.

 

[veracruz]

View attachment 139238

Wow, that's really nice Klaudly, did you create that?

 

[UCVRelics]

With all due respect to @ucvrelics.com, I wouldn't be so quick to identify his rank as Division Quarter Master SGT Major.

During the War Union NCO's did some unusual things when it came to rank insignia. A friend of mine has posted this image on another forum to gain input from some very knowledgeable people.

Late war photographs show 1st Sgt.'s wearing only their Diamond.

View attachment 139134

I will agree with you on the unusual things part and I have seen the post of the photos you posted and it was from our own @AndyHall and the remarks of them being a subdued type rank instead of the bright yellow stripes which the regs called for and which were an easy target for CS snipers to take out senior enlisted men. The subject in the photo is not out in the field and is in his dress uniform. I still believe he is a SGT-Major and the vertical lines have a meaning. I'm NO expert but one thing I do know from my years in the US Army is that ever line, ever twist, ever curl has a meaning. These could be state type but he is certainly higher up the food chain then regimental.

 

[Klaudly]

Wow, that's really nice Klaudly, did you create that?

Thanks! Made fast, just before

 

[Package4]

I will agree with you on the unusual things part and I have seen the post of the photos you posted and it was from our own @AndyHall and the remarks of them being a subdued type rank instead of the bright yellow stripes which the regs called for and which were an easy target for CS snipers to take out senior enlisted men. The subject in the photo is not out in the field and is in his dress uniform. I still believe he is a SGT-Major and the vertical lines have a meaning. I'm NO expert but one thing I do know from my years in the US Army is that ever line, ever twist, ever curl has a meaning. These could be state type but he is certainly higher up the food chain then regimental.

If he were higher than a regimental level he would not have a regimental number on his Hardee Hat, he would most likely have either a US for staff or Corps insignia. I believe this to be an early war SGT Major at the regimental level.

 

[Mint Julep]

View attachment 139238

If you use a color wheel that converts to black & white tonal values, couldn't the darker stripes be possibly red?

 

[major bill]

If the color wheele was photographed using period photographic methods. Not if you photograph a color wheel with modern methods.

 

[major bill]

Is there a possibility that it is red and white vertical stripes? Kind of like the red and white stripes on a US shield?

 

[Package4]

Is there a possibility that it is red and white vertical stripes? Kind of like the red and white stripes on a US shield?

I do not believe that red shows up in period photographs as darker than the blue, if you look at the shell jacket trim in period photographs (artillery), it appears for the most part to be lighter than the blue background. I like the idea, then we could call him a color sergeant major!

 

[Klaudly]

The white and black vertical stripes, I chose not to color them, because I do not know what color they might have.

Maybe I was wrong, I did not draw the patch in the area under the arch, I do not seem to see it.

 

[Package4]

This is a very unique rank insignia and the breakdown is the 3 lower chevron SGT, the 3 horizontal quartermaster. the vertical lines inside, Divisional, and the upper arch stripe is a SGT Major stripe. The hat insignia is Infantry and from what I see with the image being reversed is appears to be a 15 or 51 plus he has a great Jeff Davis hat pin and I think he has a plum on the top. Even if there is no name behind the image there can't be but a hand full of soldiers that have these ranks and he hat info will be the tell tell.

Wow amazing. Looks like a 15 when reversed. Can you point out the hat pin? Maybe an imageof what it looks like in another picture? And is the plume the dark shadowy part on top of the crown of the hat?
View attachment 139126

Just a standard enlisted Hardee Hat with standard issue Hardee hat pin and ostrich plume, certainly infantry due to bugle/horn insignia and right side pinned up. These hats were issued for dress, but some units wore in the field, according to US ARMY REGULATIONS 1861 soldiers would be issued 1 per year.