Breechldrs Navy Sharps & Hankins

[lawer dagget]

I posted a while ago and appreciated all the info I received. I've been busy and getting back to my project now. First off, for those that remember. I gave up the idea of making my own rim-fire case like Dixie makes. Just more trouble even with some success. I don't have a machine shop or the talent to make all the same. I realize pics are worth a 1,000 words, but for now I see no real help for what I'm asking. I want to shoot it and make sure all is good before I put the sleeve back on it. Full pics will come later.
I did order the Dixie brass and very impressed even though it's spendy. I should of just done that from the start. I use the 22 short with bullet and powder removed. The 6mm blanks they recommend are to hot for one, plus don't fit snug enough for my choice, but had to order some just to check fit. The 22 short takes a firm hand press on a table to install and pops the cap every time with zero damage to the case rim.
Here are my questions: I really think I have a very odd duck on my hands and having trouble with the bullet to case, to chamber or barrel for one. Plus identity. Serial #'s are all matching including butt plate. Barrel also. 4 digit # 78-- with B for inspection I assume. 24" barrel and I understand Navy and Army had 24" barrels with Army at 500 sold. 19" was the carbine. Question on the Army Navy will come later.
Here is the kicker, and makes no sense. I have cast the chamber. Straight wall and takes the 56-56 straight wall case nicely. So Dixie is a win on that one. My bore slugs out as .545 on the rifle groove and .533 on the bore. The rifling is good, just pitted a little. To me --- that suggest that I have a 54 cal bore? Yet everything I read says they are 52 or 50 cal. I also read a small tid-bit somewhere about (how many 54 cal rifles are still out there that survived the barrel reline or conversion?) As said: I think I have the odd duck, and as said, the barrel matches per serial # with the B stamp. Otherwise, I would think I have a miss-match.
I did find a Spencer bullet for the 56-56 from S&S that fits the bill. Body measures at .546 and heel is at .524 The inside of the 56-56 case measures out at .519 and the search goes on!?. Remember - the bore slugged at .533 and the rifling at .545
Last input with question. Army or Navy? Or maybe the tail and beginning end of both? My matching barrel has the forward screw holes for I'm guessing, the Army hand guard? Screws for the Navy sleeve also at the rear.
All input and info is always welcome. Negative also is not a problem. You can't grow or learn without some negative input.
I do enjoy watching this site. I'm more early post civil war and WW2, but look to expand. Thanks again. American History Rocks!

 

[JOHN42768]

You mention sleeve. If you are refering to the leather on the barrel, then it is the Navy version. The Army had no leather

 

[UCVRelics]

I don't have a clue as I just collect them I don't shoot them.

 

[Racing]

As for bullet size i´d say you are about on the money.
Breech loaders should always err a tad on the big side,which is exactly what you´ve got there.

I run a 28" barrel Sharps -59/-63 that sports about the same dimensions and have played around quite a bit with various bullet weights,form n sizes. It does matter,really it does.

On a completely different side note having played around with various paper cartridge guns i´ve concluded that to get the accuracy inherent out of them often a true bore rider solution is the ticket. Something that became real evident as i set out to find the accuracy hidden within the French made Chassepot bolt action needle fire from 1866. Difference was like night and day.
What i´m saying by that is that don´t be afraid to look around a bit when it comes to both bullet shapes,weights and powder charge used.
A rifle can ALWAYS be had to perform better

 

[lawer dagget]

As for bullet size i´d say you are about on the money.
Breech loaders should always err a tad on the big side,which is exactly what you´ve got there.

I run a 28" barrel Sharps -59/-63 that sports about the same dimensions and have played around quite a bit with various bullet weights,form n sizes. It does matter,really it does.

On a completely different side note having played around with various paper cartridge guns i´ve concluded that to get the accuracy inherent out of them often a true bore rider solution is the ticket. Something that became real evident as i set out to find the accuracy hidden within the French made Chassepot bolt action needle fire from 1866. Difference was like night and day.
What i´m saying by that is that don´t be afraid to look around a bit when it comes to both bullet shapes,weights and powder charge used.
A rifle can ALWAYS be had to perform better

Sorry I missed this one. The alarm did not trip for replies. Nice to hear I'm on the right track, I can't wait to test it out.
I must ask: What is meant by the true bore rider solution?

 

[Racing]

Pictures always help i guess,albeit this then a cartridge for a different paper cartridge rifle. The French Chassepot Mle1866.
The bullet is a regular 457/500 roundnose gov 45 caliber one. The Chassepot,like most paper cartridge rifles,lack means to register the cartridge really.
In the case of the Chassepot the "forcing cone" part of the chamber is just..insane. Thus Chassepot shooters,before this,needed a full target to register hits at a mere 100 meters. The rifle being known to shoot far,just not very accurate.

So what i did was slug the bore to find the minimum diameter. The bullet in case is at least reasonably long why i chucked my alloy bullets into a lathe and turned minimum body diameter for a greater part of the bullet down so the bullet can actually be shoved into the bore and come to a rest on the actual rifling.
Of course while retaining rear so called drivebands. These were 0,459" as dropped while the part i turned down i did to 11.oo mm. This makes for a "true" bore rider. Ie;part of the bullet actually come to a rest on the actual rifling and thus gets guidance the instance you fire.
Another such fabled rifle is the Westley Richards Monkey tail,while for the MT`s WR actually marketed such cartridges,ie bore riders.

All ammo needs to register at something. If not we will not get repeatable results,it´s that simple.

Back to the Chassepot then.
Why i arrived on that there design was as i figured the rifle kept all the right attributes for good accuracy,still wouldn´t deliver. 1 turn in 22" rifling twist,is 45 caliber and so on. All the bits n pieces that Joseph Whitworth and his group put forth are there. No matter the thing needed a full rifle target to register at 100 meters.
The bore riders made for all the difference.

Yes. That´s a "three leaf clover" from the same rifle at 100 meters.

Hope that explains it to you. If not clear,hollar.