Naval sword

[glennleslie]

Hi everybody I am hoping that someone can enlighten me on a recent purchase. I found in a antique mall a 1851 officers presentation sword. It is beautifully engraved good, so far so good right . My only problem is on the ricasso it is stamped (Made in USA). I have never seen a CW sword with that stamped on it ,either on line or in any books on CW swords. I didn't spend a lot but any money spent for a fake is not good, Thank You , Glenn

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy. I would highly doubt that to be original. Normal marking would be US , but who knows on a presentation piece. Someone will know.

 

[Larryh86GT]

Is USN stamped on the blade? Photos may help the experts.

 

[johan_steele]

Made in USA= post ACW, well post ACW.

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

There is no "M1851" officer's sword. I suspect you meant M1852 Navy Officer's sword. The M1852 is still the model carried by present day Navy officers. It differs from the one carried during the Civil War in that the blade was reduced in width after the CW and is now about 3/4"wide. In the 1920s, the MC Lilley Company promenintly stamped "Made in U.S.A." to show it was American, and not German, made.

Does your sword look like this>

 

[UCVRelics]

US Navy items are kind hard to date due to the fact the didn't change patterns as much as the US Army. If you could post some photos it would help. As @johan_steele and @Richard E. Schenk stated made in USA is post war. Most CW Navy swords would be be marked with an etched marking as this Horstmann marked US Navy sword.

 

[glennleslie]

Hi everybody I am hoping that someone can enlighten me on a recent purchase. I found in a antique mall a 1851 officers presentation sword. It is beautifully engraved good, so far so good right . My only problem is on the ricasso it is stamped (Made in USA). I have never seen a CW sword with that stamped on it ,either on line or in any books on CW swords. I didn't spend a lot but any money spent for a fake is not good, Thank You , Glenn

 

[glennleslie]

Hi guys thank you so much for getting back to me about my 1852 sword.I am new to the site and still trying to figure it out. when i figure how to post pics of my sword I will. Thank you again, Glenn

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

It could be a genuine pattern 1852 officer's sword without being Civil War era (but not a "fake"). As noted, the pattern was used for a long time. The only problem with it would be if it had been advertised/priced as a Civil War original when it could have been much more recent.

 

[James N.]

Hi guys thank you so much for getting back to me about my 1852 sword.I am new to the site and still trying to figure it out. when i figure how to post pics of my sword I will. Thank you again, Glenn

I forget when exactly, but in the 1890's a law was passed requiring all merchandise to be marked with country of origin, including the U. S. Therefore, it seems likely, apart from the other considerations made by johan and Richard, it was made post- that period. Since these are STILL REGULATION it's possible to find them made and marked from England, Germany, and Japan, mostly of post-WWII vintage. Welcome to the forums!

 

[Larryh86GT]

It's the swords stamped India or China that concern me the most.

 

[James N.]

It's the swords stamped India or China that concern me the most.

It's the ones NOT so stamped, but obviously FROM either that concern me!

 

[Larryh86GT]

It's the ones NOT so stamped, but obviously FROM either that concern me!

Good point.

 

[DaveBrt]

My personal Navy officer's sword looks exactly like the one pictured, except the engraving is different and there is no country of origin mark visible (certainly not above the 6-point star). I bought my sword in 1966 in Newport, RI. I was told it was either US or German-made, but no longer remember for sure.

In my 20 years commissioned service, this sword served at 3 funerals, about 12 changes of command and 1 retirement (mine).

My wife had it mounted in a shadow box on a hall wall. No workman has ever passed it by without stopping to look it over.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

The exact year date for "Made in...." is 1891.
J.

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

My personal Navy officer's sword looks exactly like the one pictured, except the engraving is different and there is no country of origin mark visible (certainly not above the 6-point star). I bought my sword in 1966 in Newport, RI. I was told it was either US or German-made, but no longer remember for sure.

In my 20 years commissioned service, this sword served at 3 funerals, about 12 changes of command and 1 retirement (mine).

My wife had it mounted in a shadow box on a hall wall. No workman has ever passed it by without stopping to look it over.

The 1891 law only required imported items be marked with the country of origin, not items made in the USA. In the 1920s the Lilley Company used the prominent "Made in USA" mark because it wanted to highlight the US origin; most swords sold in that period had German blades.

It is likely the sword you bought in 1966 was made in Germany, probably by WKC. It should be marked "Germany" at the base of the blade, but it may be hidden by the leather washer. Lilley-Ames was the last domestic sword blade maker, but they went out of business sometime after WWII - I don't recall the date, but it was long before 1966.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

My error, I thought we were talking about the imports at that point!
J.