Native ( Indian) portrayals?

[Kurtlg]

I never understood the degree of animosity between the Lakota and Crow. But boy howdy was it real, at least in the early 90's. Want to see blood fly just call a Lakota a "dirty Crow." And that was among HS kids.

There was also animosity between Lakota a some other tribes but not to that level. But hey we see absolute hatred towards the US by some southerners today more than 150 years removed.

Different kind of war.

Something I will never forget was a Lakota commenting on "White people pretending to be indian… that's ok. But black face…. There is no d

I never understood the degree of animosity between the Lakota and Crow. But boy howdy was it real, at least in the early 90's. Want to see blood fly just call a Lakota a "dirty Crow." And that was among HS kids.

There was also animosity between Lakota a some other tribes but not to that level. But hey we see absolute hatred towards the US by some southerners today more than 150 years removed.

Different kind of war.

Something I will never forget was a Lakota commenting on "White people pretending to be indian… that's ok. But black face…. There is no difference."

I understand that the Crow and Cheyenne aren't on the best of terms either though probably not to the extent of the Crow and Lakota .

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

I never understood the degree of animosity between the Lakota and Crow. But boy howdy was it real, at least in the early 90's. Want to see blood fly just call a Lakota a "dirty Crow." And that was among HS kids.

There was also animosity between Lakota a some other tribes but not to that level. But hey we see absolute hatred towards the US by some southerners today more than 150 years removed.

Different kind of war.

Something I will never forget was a Lakota commenting on "White people pretending to be indian… that's ok. But black face…. There is no difference."

I used to have a Lakota Sioux boss, and in between his talking of how all natives were one people, no differences, and how great the Sioux were, and then how he couldn't figure out why some tribes didn't like them, I once told him:

"Have you ever listened to yourself or read your history? Sioux are the jerks and were the genocidal maniacs of Indians! Y'all are the tribe all others hate because you're so stuck on yourselves and used to would wipe other tribes out for y'all's gain. Like the white man!"

Seriously, like how they found their holy land the Black Hills, someone else was there first when they came! Almost like whites from a native perspective.

I've never been afraid of speaking my mind regarding Native Americans, I've offended many, and was even offered a tribal membership or whatever in a clan or whatever for not only my drop of blood from my Cherokee GG-Grandmother, but also my bravery/stupidity on stating my opinion to natives!

 

[Hayes]

Some might not approve but Osprey has put on some books on Civil War in the Transmississippi West. There are some reasonable recreations in there and bibliographies.

Here's one that fits the bill dead-on: https://ospreypublishing.com/us/native-american-mounted-rifleman-186165-9781782000716/

 

[Belfoured]

I understand that the Crow and Cheyenne aren't on the best of terms either though probably not to the extent of the Crow and Lakota .

The Lakota's (sort of) allegiance with the Cheyennes in the 19th century actually helped fuel the existing feud between the Absaroka/Crows and the Lakotas. The larger history is pretty complicated. To vastly oversimplify, it goes back to the Absaroka being pushed westward initially and then their acquiring horses which in turn became a target of the Lakota and the bands of the Blackfeet/Niitsitapi Confederacy who needed the horse on the Plains. (One irony is that despite this history the Absaroka are still thought of historically as "horse thieves" by some in Eastern Shoshone culture). The enmity of the Absaroka and Lakota was in a sense capped off by the Army's enlistment of Absaroka as scouts during the 1870's.

 

[7thWisconsin]

We are at the point of long-standing events being rethought over Native impressions. Google ¨Bushy Run Reenactment¨ and you´ll find that not including the Native perspective in authenticity eventually resulted in the cancellation of the event. Native is a very hard impression to do well, and when done well gets a lot of respect from both Natives and non-Natives. But it is a lot of work - research not necessarily material. A lot of Native reenactors also take the Native worldview and spirituality seriously also. This is a very touchy subject.

 

[archieclement]

Hello,
For a while now I have been interested in doing a native portryal a member of a homeguard unit or maybe representing one of Stand Watie's men.

Anyone here doing a portrayal like that or know any groups?

Thank you

There's a group that has a page on Facebook, search 1st Choctaw mounted rifles on it.

If you wish to reenact, you certainly have as much right to as anyone else. And the scarcity of units and impressions would suggest more are certainly needed. Especially if your in the Trans-Mississippi (west of Mississippi river) as several battles had Confederate or Union Indian units.

1st Regiment Choctaw Mounted Rifles

1st Regiment Choctaw Mounted Rifles, Fort Towson, Oklahoma. 2,473 likes. An American Civil War reenacting group portraying the 1st Regiment Choctaw Mounted Rifles & other Oklahoma history from 1814...

www.facebook.com

 

[Mrs. V]

I watched a YouTube video of a reenactor portraying a Wyandot (Huron) from the 1750s at an event at Fort Niagara . He had Wyandot ancestry through his grandmother and explained in detail the things he wore and carried. He said the quill pattern on his knife sheath would identify him as Wyandot to other woodland tribes. .
In the comments he got skewered for wearing the wrong sash , the wrong hair roach , the tinkling cones , etc . Most of these comments seemed to come from others with Native American heritage yet I wonder how they would know exactly what their ancestors wore in the 1750s. Would similar criticism happen to some one portraying NA Civil War reenactors ? I would think so.
In any case the subject of tribal recognition is interesting to me. Would beadwork worn identify a person as being from a certain tribe in the trans- Mississippi ?

Yes, if not for the pattern but for the color choices. They could be very specific. I made a necklace using trade beads, buffalo bone and a very nice Ashtenabee based kissing otter trade silver pendant. Had a Native American ask how I knew the colors of X nation..umm..I didn't? Yellow/black/white..I just thought it was pretty? I've been mistaken for N.American. Dark hair, olive skin, some epicanthian fold..Gotta tell ya, went to a pow wow here many years ago and had to say, "No, no ancestry I know of"…

That said? My GGparents bought the home that Chief Potesega owned in Michigan. And GGma was rather um, friendly with the local indigenous population..She was an herbalist.

 

[Dullknife]

http://www.civilwarmo.org/educators/resources/info-sheets/confederate-general-stand-watie-and-cherokee-mounted-rifles

 

[Kurtlg]

Yes, if not for the pattern but for the color choices. They could be very specific. I made a necklace using trade beads, buffalo bone and a very nice Ashtenabee based kissing otter trade silver pendant. Had a Native American ask how I knew the colors of X nation..umm..I didn't? Yellow/black/white..I just thought it was pretty? I've been mistaken for N.American. Dark hair, olive skin, some epicanthian fold..Gotta tell ya, went to a pow wow here many years ago and had to say, "No, no ancestry I know of"…

That said? My GGparents bought the home that Chief Potesega owned in Michigan. And GGma was rather um, friendly with the local indigenous population..She was an herbalist.

I'm from Michigan and have been to Fort Michillimackac many times but have never found any specifics on colors or bead patterns to distinguish the various Great Lakes tribes .

 

[7thWisconsin]

Individuals traded, sold and gambled stuff, too. I think there was a lot of cross-fertilization of patterns and designs. Maybe more than we realize.

 

[Mrs. V]

I'm from Michigan and have been to Fort Michillimackac many times but have never found any specifics on colors or bead patterns to distinguish the various Great Lakes tribes .

They now have some really great books on beading etc. They've really expanded that interpretation..and if you go to Mackinac Island, they've redone the Biddle House to reflect the Native population of the Island. Very worth a trip. I'm an Associate, so I get into all of the attractions free.

 

[Kurtlg]

They now have some really great books on beading etc. They've really expanded that interpretation..and if you go to Mackinac Island, they've redone the Biddle House to reflect the Native population of the Island. Very worth a trip. I'm an Associate, so I get into all of the attractions free.

I can find lots of information on beadwork and design from the last half of the 19th century onward , but very little from the colonial period. I know things changed a lot with some amazing floral designs done during the 19th century by the Ojibwe. I have yet to find much information on how tribes recognized each other in the 16 and 1700's.Some sources say bead or quill designs but I haven't found anything about specific patterns each tribe used .
Both Mackinac and Fort Michillimackac have made great strides in research and interpretation . I look forward to my next visit but I think I'll go to the island when there are fewer tourists .

 

[major bill]

Just purchased this up at Fort Michillimackac two weeks ago. Some nice color clothing plates, a lot of photos and color photos to show their clothing to include bead work.

 

[Kurtlg]

Just purchased this up at Fort Michillimackac two weeks ago. Some nice color clothing plates, a lot of photos and color photos to show their clothing to include bead work.

View attachment 473499

Thanks. I haven't seen that book before and it looks like one I need to get. The portrait on the cover is by Catlin of a plains Ojibwe chief. The Ojibwe expanded into the plains and adopted some of the plains culture. The ones in the Great Lakes would have dressed differently . I wonder if they kept the same bead work as they moved west.
I've been interested in woodland Indian tribes during the colonial period for many years and have wondered about tribal recognition . Bead and quill designs changed significantly in the 1800s. I appreciate your help and will definitely buy that book .

 

[Dacluver]

Hello,
For a while now I have been interested in doing a native portryal a member of a homeguard unit or maybe representing one of Stand Watie's men.

Anyone here doing a portrayal like that or know any groups?

Thank you

Capt George Brewer 2nd Cherokee Mounted Volunteers
LT. Samuel Gunter 1st Cherokee Mounted Rifles
Lt. Col Clement N Vann 1st Regt Cherokee Mounted Vol

As you can see these gentlemen do not have an outstanding native look, but were no doubt Cherokee men. A lot of civilian clothing no doubt worn into battle.

 

[major bill]

Interesting look at Native American dress in the Great Lakes area, but only until 1840. Many black and white drawing of dress, but concentrates on how to recreate the clothing.

 

[major bill]

From the book in post #36 showing four of the eight head covering images.

Each head cover is described and text explained how to make it. Most women clothing has patterns and instructions on how to make the item. Some men's items have patterns and instructions as well.

 

[major bill]

Another book. This one has a ton of black and white photos as well as many color photos. Of interest is what native plants to use to make the various dyes.

 

[archieclement]

Capt George Brewer 2nd Cherokee Mounted Volunteers
LT. Samuel Gunter 1st Cherokee Mounted Rifles
Lt. Col Clement N Vann 1st Regt Cherokee Mounted Vol

As you can see these gentlemen do not have an outstanding native look, but were no doubt Cherokee men. A lot of civilian clothing no doubt worn into battle.

View attachment 473501

View attachment 473502

View attachment 473503

Indeed as many of the five civilized tribes were mixed bloods, it's odd anyone would suggest anyone should not reenact them based on race.

Nor have I ever read they were 100% segregated. As someone mentioned earlier an artillery unit had both Natives and Texans

 

[archieclement]

Haven't had any luck finding a Union indian reenacting group.