Forrest N.B. Forrest

[NCrebel]

I purchased this for $3.25 rather than $3.75 not that it makes a difference. Even though I find General Forrest to be a man
of " many faces " does not indicate ( by me at least ) that any one of them lack what each and every one needs to actually be him either.

 

[Mr. King]

One reason there are not many pictures of Forrest is not because he was adverse to having his picture taken but because heis last home on President's Island burned down with everything in it. Then, after the deaths of his spinster great-granddaughters most of the things were sold. From time to time something comes up. I'm hoping some family of Forrest's can help out - they've helped identify photos before.

Forrest lived on Presidents Island? I knew he ran a prison farm down there, but I did not know he lived on it. I've spent a good but of time working down there. That seems weird.

 

[diane]

Forrest lived on Presidents Island? I knew he ran a prison farm down there, but I did not know he lived on it. I've spent a good but of time working down there. That seems weird.

Yes, he went back to his old plantation in Mississippi - Green Grove - and bought the cabin, which was a dog-trot type, and had it put on President's Island. He had a curious spell of homelessness before that, having sold his place on Adams Street due to financial problems. (His son and grandkids didn't take it because Willie's wife wanted to live in Tupelo with her family.) The new owners moved in on top of the Forrests and for a while both families were living together until Forrest moved to President's Island. He thought the place might be healthier for his wife, who was ailing, and besides Memphis was a little difficult at the time. He wanted to try to develop the island, see if corn would grow, and hired workers from the prison for a dime a day each. He didn't actually run a prison farm but did hire labor from it. O O Howard checked up on him and was mostly pleased at what he found, so everything was going all right until the cabin caught fire and went up like so much newspaper. Nothing was saved. Forrest was not there at the time as he had took sick for the final time and was staying at Jesse's house - he died about two months after the fire.

p s
After his father's death, Willie moved there and finished out the contract.

 

[Mr. King]

Yes, he went back to his old plantation in Mississippi - Green Grove - and bought the cabin, which was a dog-trot type, and had it put on President's Island. He had a curious spell of homelessness before that, having sold his place on Adams Street due to financial problems. (His son and grandkids didn't take it because Willie's wife wanted to live in Tupelo with her family.) The new owners moved in on top of the Forrests and for a while both families were living together until Forrest moved to President's Island. He thought the place might be healthier for his wife, who was ailing, and besides Memphis was a little difficult at the time. He wanted to try to develop the island, see if corn would grow, and hired workers from the prison for a dime a day each. He didn't actually run a prison farm but did hire labor from it. O O Howard checked up on him and was mostly pleased at what he found, so everything was going all right until the cabin caught fire and went up like so much newspaper. Nothing was saved. Forrest was not there at the time as he had took sick for the final time and was staying at Jesse's house - he died about two months after the fire.

p s
After his father's death, Willie moved there and finished out the contract.

So he was pretty much brankrupt after the war? His place in Adams Street, that is now the Fireman's museum or something, right?

 

[diane]

So he was pretty much brankrupt after the war? His place in Adams Street, that is now the Fireman's museum or something, right?

Is it? I don't know but I do know it and the slave market a couple doors down was torn down some long time ago. Forrest never could quite get on his feet again after the war but what bankrupted him was Memphis dis-incorporating itself as a city in order to get out from under the railroad bonds it had purchased - mostly from Forrest. That was Minor Meriweather's idea and why Forrest was gunning for him until friends calmed him down! Mary Ann had money, though, but he wouldn't touch hers - and he was right as she needed it for her later years.

 

[Mr. King]

Is it? I don't know but I do know it and the slave market a couple doors down was torn down some long time ago. Forrest never could quite get on his feet again after the war but what bankrupted him was Memphis dis-incorporating itself as a city in order to get out from under the railroad bonds it had purchased - mostly from Forrest. That was Minor Meriweather's idea and why Forrest was gunning for him until friends calmed him down! Mary Ann had money, though, but he wouldn't touch hers - and he was right as she needed it for her later years.

I "Google earthed" the address off his slave pen advertisement, 40 Adams Street (i think it was). It's the Fireman's Museum if I am not mistaken. Its very sad to hear how he literally sacrificed his wealth, health, and family only to die broke from a painful disease. I'm sure he was glad to have those last 12 years, but it sounds terrible. He gave everything he could to the cause. The only reason he survived the war was because of poor marksmanship on the part of his opponents. He definitely wasn't dodging shells or hiding behind trees.

 

[Allie]

I "Google earthed" the address off his slave pen advertisement, 40 Adams Street (i think it was). It's the Fireman's Museum if I am not mistaken. Its very sad to hear how he literally sacrificed his wealth, health, and family only to die broke from a painful disease. I'm sure he was glad to have those last 12 years, but it sounds terrible. He gave everything he could to the cause. The only reason he survived the war was because of poor marksmanship on the part of his opponents. He definitely wasn't dodging shells or hiding behind trees.

I was recently researching the Fireman's museum building and I believe the building is much later than that. I'll have to look it up. Very few buildings in Memphis are antebellum, although the same entity may be there, it has usually been rebuilt.

Edit: yep, the Fire Museum is 118 Adams, built in 1910.

This is an excellent site, by the way.

http://historic-memphis.com/memphis-historic/buildings-businesses/buildings-businesses.html

 

[Mr. King]

I was recently researching the Fireman's museum building and I believe the building is much later than that. I'll have to look it up. Very few buildings in Memphis are antebellum, although the same entity may be there, it has usually been rebuilt.

Edit: yep, the Fire Museum is 118 Adams, built in 1910.

This is an excellent site, by the way.

http://historic-memphis.com/memphis-historic/buildings-businesses/buildings-businesses.html

Oh, I only meant the address. I did not intend to imply that the same building that stands there today was Forrest's slave pen.

 

[Allie]

Oh, I only meant the address. I did not intend to imply that the same building that stands there today was Forrest's slave pen.

I think there's a small park at the actual address.

 

[diane]

I "Google earthed" the address off his slave pen advertisement, 40 Adams Street (i think it was). It's the Fireman's Museum if I am not mistaken. Its very sad to hear how he literally sacrificed his wealth, health, and family only to die broke from a painful disease. I'm sure he was glad to have those last 12 years, but it sounds terrible. He gave everything he could to the cause. The only reason he survived the war was because of poor marksmanship on the part of his opponents. He definitely wasn't dodging shells or hiding behind trees.

There were some mighty strange things that happened to keep Forrest alive - so many that he came to believe the only reason he was alive was because of the prayers of his wife and mother. Looking at his war time adventures, it's hard to come to any other conclusion!

 

[roberts]

Oh, I only meant the address. I did not intend to imply that the same building that stands there today was Forrest's slave pen.

An address search won't work because everything was renumbered in the early 20th century. His old slave pen was on Adams behind Cavalry Episcopal Church. The church still stands. His home was next door at the corner of Adams and 3rd. He sold both when he got out of slave trading in 1859. He then bought a home on Adams a few lots east of the first.

His home on Presidents Island was west of the current industrial park. The home was quite modest....a log cabin with a dogtrot but it commanded an excellent view of the Memphis harbor and downtown from its front porch.

 

[diane]

An address search won't work because everything was renumbered in the early 20th century. His old slave pen was on Adams behind Cavalry Episcopal Church. The church still stands. His home was next door at the corner of Adams and 2nd. He sold both when he got out of slave trading in 1859. He then bought a home on Adams a few lots east of the first.

His home on Presidents Island was west of the current industrial park. The home was quite modest....a log cabin with a dogtrot but it commanded an excellent view of the Memphis harbor and downtown from its front porch.

Thanks for that reply! I've been wondering exactly where his home was located - I knew there were two on Adams street. I believe the slave jail collapsed about that year and killed five people and that was why he left the slave business. No place to put them! Forrest sued the contractor for shoddy work but that suit was interrupted by the war. I do think, however, that he remained involved with it through partnerships and other investments in the trade. There was quite a network of family owned slave markets around Tennessee and Mississippi.

By the way, would you happen to know where Aaron Forrest's plantation actually was? The only thing I know was he was sued, or his estate anyway, for damages from the war. He evidently burned out his Unionist neighbor but, seeing as the defendant in the suit was dead, I don't suppose it went anywhere?

 

[roberts]

The slave jail was actually rebuilt and operated by Maples and Bill Forrest until the city fell in 1862. The building was red brick with arched doors painted yellow. I believe that it was three stories tall and shaped like a capital E with courtyards in the rear. It was confiscated during the occupation of Memphis. After the war it became a hotel and was not torn down until the 1930's. The Forrest and Maples sign painted on the side brick face was still visible.

I don't know where Aaron's plantation was but IIRC Bill killed a union planter in Coahoma County at the end of the war.

 

[diane]

The slave jail was actually rebuilt and operated by Maples and Bill Forrest until the city fell in 1862. The building was red brick with arched doors painted yellow. I believe that it was three stories tall and shaped like a capital E with courtyards in the rear. It was confiscated during the occupation of Memphis. After the war it became a hotel and was not torn down until the 1930's. The Forrest and Maples sign painted on the side brick face was still visible.

I don't know where Aaron's plantation was but IIRC Bill killed a union planter in Coahoma County at the end of the war.

Thank you! That ad everybody shows that says Maples and Forrest slave traders is always up as being Bedford - Bill was a silent partner in some other markets as well. Forrest would start one up and then sell out to a brother. One witness at Ft Pillow claimed he knew Forrest by sight and then described a short bit of a man. That was Jesse! He had been through Jesse's market at Jackson. He knew Forrest by sight, all right, just the wrong one. (Jesse wasn't at Ft Pillow, though - he was riding a raid on a train in support of operations around Ft Pillow.)

That is fascinating about the jail being three stories high. I wonder when it was built? Forrest's was being expanded to accommodate 400-500 people from a capacity of about 300. He had 'an interest' in the Wanderer and apparently a sizable portion of that ship's cargo arrived in Memphis - don't think it was all of them as some are accounted for elsewhere. Bill was usually the agent who picked up slaves from SC and VA to put on trains for Tennessee. Forrest was in the process of suing the contractors whose faulty design caused the collapse of the jail - I'm not sure if he won that suit before the war began. If he did, he would use the proceeds to rebuild.

I was wondering about Aaron's plantation because I happened across a post-war claims suit filed in a Mississippi court - can't remember the county, though. Bill...I'd believe that indeed. He had a lot of enemies from the war - some folks really didn't appreciate a visit from Bill and his 40 Thieves! In fact, it appears he died from the long term effects of a stomach injury incurred when a former scout and some old family enemies bushwhacked him on the Natchez Trace. That combined with bad water took him off. Bill is interesting - he was known as a good man and a generous one, strikingly handsome, but he had a furious temper that made him the only man alive Bedford feared. "No man alive knows when Bill is going to get mad," he said. And, when Bill got mad, someone usually died.

 

[roberts]

Diane, I hope you're proud of yourself....you made me go digging for answers.

First, the guy killed by Bill was named Thomas N. Barbee. He was killed in Coahoma County when he tried to reclaim a group of mules that had been taken by Forrest. (I don't think he was a Unionist though)

Second the guy Aaron burned out was named Greenwood Leflore. On February 15, 1864 he stated that Aaron Forrest burned his cotton, gin house and stands and did $192K in damage. He claimed it was because he was for the Union.

You'll like this... Leflore was a Choctaw. Not just any Indian though, he was a chief who was instrumental in bringing about the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek which ceded their lands east of the Mississippi River in 1830. One of the provisions allowed him to stay on the good side of the river on his plantation in Carrol County. Anyway he died in August 1865 and his estate filed a claim with the US gov't after the war....the claim was for $339,245 and included livestock taken by US forces as well as the fire. The claim was denied.

 

[diane]

Diane, I hope you're proud of yourself....you made me go digging for answers.

First, the guy killed by Bill was named Thomas N. Barbee. He was killed in Coahoma County when he tried to reclaim a group of mules that had been taken by Forrest. (I don't think he was a Unionist though)

Second the guy Aaron burned out was named Greenwood Leflore. On February 15, 1864 he stated that Aaron Forrest burned his cotton, gin house and stands and did $192K in damage. He claimed it was because he was for the Union.

You'll like this... Leflore was a Choctaw. Not just any Indian though, he was a chief who was instrumental in bringing about the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek which ceded their lands east of the Mississippi River in 1830. One of the provisions allowed him to stay on the good side of the river on his plantation in Carrol County. Anyway he died in August 1865 and his estate filed a claim with the US gov't after the war....the claim was for $339,245 and included livestock taken by US forces as well as the fire. The claim was denied.

Oh, boy! That's what I was looking for! The LeFlores are still a prominent Choctaw family - my great-grandmother was related to the Overton Chickasaws, who were related to the Choctaw clan of the LeFlores. They went to Kentucky to breed horses but the cousins had a plantation outside of Memphis - it's rumored in the family that Bill Forrest was mighty sweet on one of the daughters.

The war sure complicated everything, didn't it?

 

[Mr. King]

An address search won't work because everything was renumbered in the early 20th century. His old slave pen was on Adams behind Cavalry Episcopal Church. The church still stands. His home was next door at the corner of Adams and 2nd. He sold both when he got out of slave trading in 1859. He then bought a home on Adams a few lots east of the first.

His home on Presidents Island was west of the current industrial park. The home was quite modest....a log cabin with a dogtrot but it commanded an excellent view of the Memphis harbor and downtown from its front porch.

It looks like his slave pen is now the parking lot behind the Church on Adams, right? To the West of the church?

 

[roberts]

It looks like his slave pen is now the parking lot behind the Church on Adams, right? To the West of the church?

Yeah it's a parking lot but it is actually east of the church....here's a google image. (They changed the name of 3rd Street to BB King)

The corner was named Columbus Park with a statue of Columbus donated by the K of C. The statue has been moved to Marquette Park....not because it offended anyone but because that's where they celebrate the Italian Festival. Here is the marker for NBF's home....it does offend some people. It was removed and then replaced...maybe they just relocated it. The language could be improved.

 

[James N.]

Oh, boy! That's what I was looking for! The LeFlores are still a prominent Choctaw family - my great-grandmother was related to the Overton Chickasaws, who were related to the Choctaw clan of the LeFlores. They went to Kentucky to breed horses but the cousins had a plantation outside of Memphis - it's rumored in the family that Bill Forrest was mighty sweet on one of the daughters.

The war sure complicated everything, didn't it?

Of course there's a Le Flore County in modern-day Oklahoma in the Chickasaw lands there.

 

[LoriAnn]

...here's a google image.

Seeing it now and learning what it once was is a bit intense.

I realize there is history in every square inch of this Earth, but still. Reading "slave pen" and then looking at this photo stops me in my tracks.